Freaking Out About Money

If you are "freaking out" about money and you only have two goats then you need to get rid of them because it only gets worse.

I'm afraid if we all took that attitude, none of us would have any livestock.

Just to clarify, I hate to see anyone give up this wonderful lifestyle for fear of not being able to make it. I'm sure there are some that have $$ and don't have to worry about things day to day, but I'm willing to bet the majority of us live just about paycheck to paycheck, and still manage to keep our bills paid and our families and animals fed. As my mom always says, "Where there's a will, there's a way."

__________________
~Trish~
http://harvestmoon-farm.blogspot.com/

Goats for us are money makers. I buy cheap.

Learned as a teenage that run of the mill goats where the way to go. Fancy goats cost too much to buy andhad more health issuesthen the regular old goats.

I have 160 acres of brush. If it would ever rain, my goat's feed bill would be minimal,just minerals, but since I've had goats, we've had the driest spell they've ever had around here. Going on 3rd year now of way below average precip.Feeding orphaned calves goatmilk, and selling at weaning is a big source of $$ for us. It bought us half a new perimeter fence-a mile of it.

Run of the mill goats may be ok for brush goats. I wouldn't start like that with milk goats. Too much chance of disease.

__________________
Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Wow. I'm totally blown away and deeply touched by your responses. It's beyond invaluable to hear such a wide variety of experiences and points of view.

I'm definitely not looking to make any money. I just want this to be a worthwhile venture as a way of feeding my family ultra-nutritious food.

Some facts:
1) we're about an hour outside of Seattle (so very high cost of living - ugh!) on 10 forested acres, so the goats won't have access pasture (except their fenced area in which we planted orchard grass and is about 1/2 acre), but lots of huckleberries, blackberries, salal, etc.

2) We're currently buying cow milk @ $3/gallon - and that's just not good for anyone. A gallon of raw cow milk around here costs $7/gallon and a gallon of raw goat milk is $12/gallon.

3) Just called my local feed store and prices are as follows: Alfalfa Bale (95 lbs): $17. Loose minerals (50 lbs): $10, Grain (50lbs): $17. I didn't know what else to price out.

I was looking on another thread and it looks like I should plan for 10lbs a day for 2 goats in hay, so I'll need 3 bales a month @ $17/each is $51. If they also eat a total of 5lbs of grain (2 1/2 lbs) a day that's also 3 bags of grain, so also $51.
How fast will I go through the loose minerals?

I'm now up to $100 a month at a minimum for 2 milking does giving I have no idea how much milk per week.

Is this sounding about right so far or is my math all wrong?

You should only need hay in the winter when there's not as much forage, so how many months a year will that be applicable in your area? Also, they don't need grain unless they're in late pregnancy (last 2 months) and/or lactating, and then only on the milk stand at milking time.

__________________
~Trish~
http://harvestmoon-farm.blogspot.com/

Look around your area, too, and see if there's any farmers that grow alfalfa hay that will sell by the ton. It's usually cheaper that way.

I would definitely work on fencing more of the acreage for goats. If you don't mind, they'll do well on the forage there. They prefer that sort of thing to grass, although they seem to do fine on grass and hay.
I'd go for several small pastures if possible so you can do rotational grazing/browsing. You may only need to supplement with alfalfa or another calcium source. In your area, they should be able to browse most of the year.

__________________
There are more things in heaven and earth,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Hamlet


My attempt at a blog. Hopefully entertaining and useful.
http://senselesslyrandom.blogspot.com/

I never buy hay from the feedstore-from a farmer is going to be WAY, WAY cheaper. Ask other goat breeders in your area for phone numbers of hay farmers. I also buy my barley from a farmer-and it is about 1/2 my grain ration.

__________________
Nancy Boling
Frosted Mini Goats
Alpine and Nigerian Dwarf goats
2 Jersey heifers
1 guard llama
And whatever else shows up...
http://www.swfarm.net/

Is your 10 acres perimeter fences? If so, woods are a goat's FAVORITE place to eat! Twigs, saplings, etc., provides a wonderful, highly nutritious diet for goats.

With that amount of graze and browse, you shouldn't need to buy hay except for winter...so that will cut your costs down significantly. When I did loose minerals, 1 bag generally lasted 10 goats for 6 weeks.

On grain, you feed by the pound for what they are producing in milk. 1 lb of grain for every 3lbs of milk they are making. So if a doe is making a gallon a day, you would feed her 3 lbs of grain per day. Adjusted, of course, for the doe's condition...if she starts getting skinny on that, feed her more; if she looks like a beach ball, feed her a bit less.

For two does, you aren't likely to be feeding MORE than 6 lbs a day in grain total, so use that as your likely, top-end number. That means, at $17 per 50 lb bag, you would be spending approximately $62 a month on grain. Since you have grazing and browsing area, figure spending money on hay only from your area's first frost date to last frost date, and figure 3lbs a day of hay rather than 5 for those months, as in the early and late parts of the season, there will still be grass and browse for them...it will only be in deep winter that they have to depend completely upon hay.

__________________
Peace,
Caliann

"First, Show me in the Bible where it says you can save someone's soul by annoying the hell out of them." -- Chuck

Oh, if they are standard sized, each of your does will likely produce between a half a gallon to a gallon a day each...so, if both does are in milk, you are looking at a gallon per day of milk. Even at rock bottom, nasty store-bought milk prices, that means $90 worth of milk per month. At healthy, raw milk prices, it is between $210-$360 worth of milk per month from your two girls.

__________________
Peace,
Caliann

"First, Show me in the Bible where it says you can save someone's soul by annoying the hell out of them." -- Chuck

I think a lot of the cost will depend on how well set up you are for goats on your property - as Caliann said - if your perimeter is well fenced and you have a barn or shed with a pen for them you should be good to go. And as long as you are happy to DIY and improvise as much as possible, you can do it fairly low cost.

You could spend thousands setting up a catalogue photo barn, buy in top breeding stock and get the vet out for every sniffle and hoof trim. You would probably end up a lot poorer.

I now have 5 goats, a doe in milk, her doeling and buckling, plus 2 wether bucklings given to us for freezer camp. So 2 milkers and 3 for meat.

Last year, I bought one grade Saanen doe for $100 including her buckling from kind people who helped me out and even let me take her back to use their new buck for free. We buy or scrounge a few bales of hay from neighbouring big farmers at baling time each summer in exchange for money or some veges, milk or labour - it works well in our community, if you have good neighbours and BE a good neighbour costs can drop dramatically. Hay is only as bedding and extra feed when penned as we have very mild winters here.

I wont even comment on your feed costs there, as I live in NZ, but my goats eat mostly pasture and some tree fodder, plus a pound of grain a day for Salma when I'm milking her. I guesstimate at about $1 per day for her feed.

Our plan is to get Salma and Willow both bred and raise 2 bottle calves on the milk next spring, as one doe is more than enough milk for the 2 of us, even making cheese most weeks! The calves we can buy for $60 at 4 days old, sell as steers for homekill meat at $600 each, offsetting the cost of the goats nicely.

The wethered bucklings provide our meat, as they dont really cost anything other than the pasture they eat and a bit of time to trim hooves and gentle them.

So assuming you penny-pinch wisely: eat bucklings at about 9 months, sell on bottle calves or feed milk to hogs or chickens for eggs, you can take that off the cost of your does rations - I would say we should come out substantially better off each year from having goats in a small number. I suspect if the numbers grew too much we'd start losing again because of the extra setup costs. Thats just my two cents, as a penny pinching goat newbie!

Unfortunately our 10 acres isn't fenced. I guess we'll have to figure out some way to let them graze in the forest so save on feed.
Again - I can't thank you all enough. Your combined responses really clearly illustrate the variables possible when trying to figure out feed cost throughout the year. Based on what I've learned it seems that as long as I can sell the extra milk we'll be more than breaking even with costs and any meat we get, cheese we make, and/or money from selling the babies will just be bonus.

I'd think of it the other way around. The milk you consume, cheese you make and eat, and meat you process yourselves gets you in the black, financially. Plus, you are eating more healthy that when you consume store products.

Any sales are a bonus.

You can take your goats for browse walks. Mine fill up in 30 to 45 minutes.

__________________
Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

This is great fencing, fairly inexpensive and can be easily moved.

http://www.premier1supplies.com/fenc...l&fence_id=102

__________________
~Trish~
http://harvestmoon-farm.blogspot.com/

I started almost 20 years ago with expensive registered goats buying the most expensive hay and feed. Called the vet out for every little thing and it cost me big bucks. I had to sell my original herd and start over in another state. I learned you can't milk papers and when the number and government requirements started a few years ago and the scare in Europe where they killed goats that were not infected helped me realize that I don't need the most expensive registered goats. I don't have time to show I need good quality milk at a reasonable price. I have the best heavy milkers due to culling and breeding well. If you can raise your own hay and grain expenses are minimal. If you must purchase from someone else the price can be very high. Price your feed and hay. Get acquainted with an experienced goat person they know more than the vets anyway! Research your project and set a budget and be realistic. It can be done!

I have a mutt herd. There is no vet here that treats goats. I grow my own hay buy a small amount of feed, minerals, wormers, and other needed meds. that is it. I do not expect to make a profit I also believe the less is more. If there is browse available for them in the summer and fall they get that if there is enough grass in the pasture to graze on after we cut hay then they eat there. I do not expect loads of milk. My girls are mixed mini goats. I am quite happy with a pint a day from them. I do not feed excessive amounts to get them to produce more milk. It just makes them fat and unhealthy.

Expect your goats to COST you money not MAKE money.

If they don't then you are the rare exception.

If you make use of all of your milk and meat and manure and count them you will come closer.

But most goat owners have more goats than they need and don't really fully use most of the milk they have.

For our household use, we can get by on a Quart a day, but as I need to sell the doelings, I do breed with production in mind.

Bucklings are butchered for our own use or sold for $50 each at weaning, so there is cash flow there, too.

If you are milking, you're saving at least that amount each month that you would have paid the grocery store. Ditto if you make yogurt and cheese.

It's about balance.

__________________
Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

If I can reign myself in during kidding season, I do well..... But if I go nuts on buying bottle kids, then I'm screwed

Usually though I break even. I invested in good lines, I test for disease and run a clean herd so my kid sales pay quite a bit of the feed bill..... Without kid sales, I couldn't have the goats. I also do things like trim feet and vaccinate other peoples herds for a bit of cash to go towards the goats.

The goats are my hobby and we also drink lots of milk and eat the extra buck kids so they give back in a variety of ways.

This year, I'm woefully upside down and way behind budget. We just moved had to pay for all new fencing so I'm selling a few does that I would normally keep & I'm selling almost my entire kid crop so I can afford to feed everyone this year.

Start with the best you can afford. Do NOT buy any animal unless it's been disease tested. Don't be afraid to cull...... Every goat is cute. Every goat is sweet. They are all endearing. Each one cost you money. If finances are tight, don't keep animals who are a drain on precious resources and don't give back their fair share.

__________________
Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

Keep up with Noodleville Goats on Facebook!
https://www.facebook.com/NoodlevilleFarm