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Goat not in Labor! Or is she?
Hello everyone. I am a newbie goat lover/owner/breeder...
My husband and I are raising Fainters...We only have 3 goats so far. And 2 cows, 12 chickens, a dog, a cat, and 3 monsters...I mean angelic children! Anyways, I am goat sitting for a friend. 2 Pregnant mamas. 1 of then is close, but not close enough. Her vulva is not even puckered or stretched so Im not worried. But the other one, Her mother, Centavo...Looks as if she will pop at the seams anyday. Ive had her for a week. about 9 days now. Heres what I know. She is not a first timer. (obviously) She is huge. Her vulva is bright pink, looks like there is a bowling ball in it when she lays down. Her bag is big, but now tight...Not shiny. Not hanging to the ground. She has a torn tendon is her back leg from a dog attacking her. Its laid wide open, :yuck: but IS healing. She cannot walk on it. Also She has an infection in one of her teets. Its purple and swole slightly. But also healing,I think. 9 days ago, she started losing a white thick plug like mucus. Idk if it was the first day of that, because i hadnt seen her before then. Anyways, its been thick and creamy and white. A couple days ago it turned to clear, then back to white. The owner said almost three weeks ago she was due. (Not sure of exact bred date) She is quiet. Not very vocal...Except at night, I hear her talking, or saying Maaaa, Maaaa, Maaaa. Over and over and over, all night. (Baby Monitor) She is squishy, puckered and loose back there, And she has a BM every 5 mins. Her ligs seem to be gone. Its jelly like and her tail head is floppy like its not attached. But has been that way for several days now. My question is...when will she go? what should I look for?:bash: And will that bum leg affect her labor. She cannot stand on it, And hobbles to her food, Which she is eating just fine. Also I havent felt baby movement in a few days, I know they are still alive, I think, because Ill go out to check on her after shes moved around, and ill feel a sharp thing in her side, then later its gone.....Im a first timer, Any advice is helpful. I did have some awesome advice yesterday, But any additional would be welcome!!! Thank you:goodjob: |
Do you notice any contractions? It sounds like she's ready to go any time now. I'd keep an eye on her.
Also, you can wash up and go in and see if you can feel anything. Go slow. You should be able to feel if the cervix is dilated or not. If so, then you should feel a kid and hopefully it will be nose/teeth and two hooves. Good luck to you. |
Wash up, go in. Goat labors are normally SHORT!! If she's been like this a while, the kids may be stuck.
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Have you seen her actively pushing? How long has her bag been shiny? It sounds like she actually got bred the next heat cycle than what the breeder thought. Because the next heat cycle would put her due now. I second what Alice said and I would go in a bit and see if her cervix is even open right now. Generally if you can feel kids bopping around they are not in labor quite yet. When my girls are in labor those kids have dropped and are near the birth canal.
Check out this website http://fiascofarm.com/galleries/Goat...tos/index.html . That is a page that has photos of does in labor and shows you what a doe looks like when she is really pushing hard. I have had does loose their mucus plug up to 2 weeks before delivering and even loose their ligs a few days before going into active labor. Has her belly dropped at all? I mean to the point where you go "Wow did she already have the kids?". If not then I would say she isn't ready to go yet. If it has then she is getting really close. Justine |
Happy Hogger... I do not know what it will look like if she having a contraction, However this morning she was sorta yelling and rocking forward while laying down,. then she stopped,. Shes normal and calm now.
Alice- Truth be told, Im afraid to go in. :( My hubby will be free soon to help hold in so I can check. But Ive never done it. What would I use to lube if I dont have ky on hand...(and live quite far from the store)?? Goldenwood- Her side are really sunk in near the top, and her spine is really prominent. They have dropped....weeks ago. And her bag is not super full or shiny, She wont let me check it either, but i did manage to poke it and its soft, but large... In previous labors, shes not been a big milk producer...so, Idk if that has anything to do with it. As of now she is just laying around, She was vocal for a few minutes ago...Like loud vocal, laying down and kinda looked like she was wanting to push or trying, because she would rock forward with every howl. But then stopped...... As soon as the husband is avail, Ill have him hold her so i can go in.:help: BTW she is half boer, half milk goat....bred to a 3/4 boer. I really appreciate all the input:-) |
Also, she doesnt act stressed or uncomfortable....Is it possible for the signs to linger for a couple weeks before birth is immenant? (sp?)
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I would go in for sure, do you have a milk stand? If so then get her up, lube up your hand and dive in. Go slow and feel around, it honestly isn't as scary as it sounds. I wouldn't wait until your hubby gets home because the longer you wait if there are kids stuck the worse the situation could get.
Again check out the website I showed you, they have some great stuff on how to go about going in and moving kids around if need be. I wish I lived close by because I would be over in a heart beat to show you how to go in and feel around for kids. Is there anybody else that could help you hold her? A neighbor or a friend who could come by? Justine PS: Shoot if you have a milk stand and you can put her on it or even attach her to a fence I will give you my number so I can talk you through it. **edited to add** I sent you a pm with my cell number in it! |
OK, What do i use to lube up my fingers?. I live out in the country and have no KY lube laying around.
Walk me through this real quick for a refresher....scrub, glove up, 2 fingers...feeling for bubble or cervix... Is it just straight in there...or in and down?? in and up?? And hubby is here now :clap::happy: I just dont want to hurt her. But i am ready and willing to learn |
Justine- got your pm. Thank you!
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I can walk you through it on the phone if you like. You will be going in past your wrist if her cervix is open (I have been up to my elbow before trying to move kids around). She won't like it one bit and if she is having contractions prepare for some tight squeezes!
What do you have on hand to lube up with? Yes make sure you wash your hands very well right before going in! I go bare handed as to make sure I know exactly what I am feeling. Justine |
Let me check what I have on hand. Brb. I for some reason cannot get good cell reception down in the barn....But if need be will step out to call you. Hold on while i look for lube~:walk:
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OK.... I have NOTHING!:smack:grumble::censored:
Why i dont know... All i could find was vaseline based ointment and triple antibiotic....Ummm, maybe i can find a neighbor with some lube.... |
If you can't find anything to lube up with, you can use plain, regular liquid dish soap in a pinch.
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Sometimes they are adjusting things a bit until they get down to business and everything will still progress normally, they get up and down while they are doing this, adjusting. That said, I had two need some real help last year, we are decently experienced and still needed a vet for one of them. Fiasco farms has very good pictures.
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Okay do you have vegetable oil? I read that you can use something like that in a pinch (please tell I am not wrong ladies!).
Justine |
I suppose you don't have chlorhexidine (it's blue)?
Don't use vaseline or ointment, it isn't water soluble. Like someone else said, if you don't have anything else, liquid soap is going to have to do. Don't push too hard, you can tear her cervix, if she is open it will be easy to go in, if you get stopped, stop, don't keep going. |
Yes I have lots of oil. :happy: Im slipping on boots and winter gear now...
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OK, No vaseline. I will check the tack room for lube....And i wont push to hard,....Ill go slow and careful. Thank u all ! |
I hate not knowing things... But i guess thats part of the learning process... Im washing up now and heading out. Will be back in a bit. :)
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http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1316/ANR-1316.pdf
Page 5 talks about how to prepare going in, they mention no soap, but don't give an alternative to OB Lube, I've always had Lube on hand or at worst the powder lube so I'm not sure. They do mention mineral oil. I might be inclined to use coconut oil if I had nothing else, do you have any coconut oil? |
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OK, I did it... I DID IT!!!! Two fingers, very gently, with a bit of oil on them.
Not dish soap. Heres how it went. I went in about an inch...and was blocked, So i slid my fingers aroung ever so gently til i found an area i could go into. It was in and slightly upwards.... IS THIS RIGHT?? She was loose. No issue getting in. Now i have never been inside a goat, but i remember what the cervix felt like when i was prego,And I could not find her cervix. What i did feel, abour a fingers length in, was something round and hard, cone shaped...Nose?? or knee??? It felt like it was right there with nothing between us but a small bit of bag, ......Would i have been able to feel that if it was just in the uterus, or was the cervix open and i was feeling the baby... After about 30 seconds in, I got out, and she was fine, no whelping or pain. ???? I wish i could be more specific... sorry |
It sounds like a kid is right there...I would go in again and see if you can feel past the hard cone shape, can you move it around? Push it backwards? Gah I wish I lived closer! Okay if it was me...I would see if I couldn't move the kid (I am assuming it was a kid) backwards a bit further so I could get a better feel on what exactly is going on. A kid should be presented with either a nose and it's two front hooves or it can be breach with it's back feet presenting (I have delivered both ways). I am wondering if it is just her water sack...or it could be the kid still in it's sack. Okay I keep editing this but I am mulling things over in my head. Either way it sounds like she is in active labor and for some reason nothing is progressing meaning a kid is stuck or not in the right position. You need to be acting fast in helping her, the longer a doe labors the higher the risk of loosing a kid(s) and mom. I am wondering if she is having a sluggish labor or if the kid is just not presented right.
It doesn't sound like a kid is presented right but then again if she is having a sluggish labor due to low calcium or some other reason that would explain why she is having a hard time getting the kid out. I hope some of this is making sense to you, my brain is going a million miles an hour trying to think if how to help you. Justine Justine |
Would I be able to feel that baby cone shape if i was feeling the outside of the uterus, or did i go into the cervix.... Im so confused. Ill go back out and see her in a sec...Gotta feed the kids(my human kids) lol
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It could also be a kid's rear end. You have to figure out if there is a nose/teeth or a tail.
When I felt the first tail and the kid was stuck, I loaded that goat and we went to the vet. Now, I know what to do, but fishing for back feet wasn't what I was ready for at that time. |
MirandaT I am going to be outside in the barn clipping hooves for a bit. Call me if you need any help! :)
Justine |
Been reading your thread & you already have some excellent advice. I remember the 1st time I needed to go in & it is scary the 1st time but I kept thinking if I don't I might loose my doe so I did it.
Keep us updated but it does sound like she's in labor now & ready. Keeping my fingers crossed for you & the momma. |
Thank you all, I love this site:bouncy::grouphug:
I will keep you all posted. Going out to make rounds again!!! |
Watch her close for signs of exhaustion. I wish I had a link to positions, it is easier to close your eyes while you feel. I will search the web for positions so you can get an idea of what you may be feeling.
Do you have any CMPK? Or goat calcium drench? I might give hot molasses water if she needs a pick me up too and/or electrolytes. |
Ok, here are some lamb Dystocia's with illustrations and explanations and what can be done, study this, then go in with your eyes closed and see what you are dealing with.
http://www.woolgrowers.org/education...obstetrics.pdf |
How is she doing MirandaT? Any progress??
Justine |
I have "bounce back" in powder form, And ive been giving her hot molasses water, just in case, Still no change. Ive been watching her 9 days with no change!....Frustrating:hair:And I keep inspecting her with a fine tooth comb for any bit of inclination shes in labor....But nothing. Ugh, :bored: I feel like this is the worldsd largest pot...not boiling.
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If you where able to go in and feel something in her cervix then she is in labor. Have you gone back in and found out exactly what you where feeling?
Justine |
Justine- Shes laying on the ground.....She will get up and go to a different corner, and lay down... No mucus, no noise, no pushing,... If she wasnt the size of a house i wouldnt even think she was pg. Except for all those signs......idk
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Okay, I will tell you that I had a doe who was in active labor (delivered one kid) and after an hour of just kind of doing nothing but getting up and moving around I finally went in again to find a kid blocking her sister from coming out (triplets).
After you look at the diagram see if you can't push it back in a bit. If you can you might be able to get a better feel for what is going on. The good thing is it doesn't sound like she is in major distress. If it makes you feel better sometimes when I have had to go in I still have no clue as to what I am feeling :hysterical:. One time I was presented with just an ear...I was very perplexed as to what exactly I was dealing with (I thought maybe a VERY flat kid) but I finally realized it was an ear :pound:. Justine |
Could she not be in active labor? Did you mean 9 hours or 9 days? Do you have any pictures? Honestly, a vet call may be in order here soon, depending on the situation. How is she acting? Is she still ruminating (chewing cud)?
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Im almost positive that it was a nose, but i will go in again, with my eyes closed and try to push it back.
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If it was a nose and you push it back see if you can't find the feet (feel for a mouth/teeth to make sure it is a nose). I am sure you already read on the diagram but you will want to get both feet up by the nose and help pull the kid out. Don't pull both shoulders through at once though, good luck! I am praying it is a nose because if you get the kid pushed back in you shouldn't have a hard time getting the legs up.
Justine |
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