Gretta's blood test

Minelson · #**141** 11/15/12, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barleychown

Micro nutrients used during the growing of the alfalfa should mean that the trace minerals and such will be a little higher in the hay. A good thing.

Did you find virgin coconut oil?

No! I got All Naturral LouAna Pure coconut oil. Is that the wrong stuff?

Minelson · #**142** 11/15/12, 12:33 PM

And I forgot the Greek Yogurt..double smack!!

Barleychown · #**143** 11/15/12, 01:01 PM

It'll add calories, but it's not anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal like raw virgin coconut oil is. I'm not sure how hard it'll be for you to find...most whole food or natural food stores carry it. Have a trader joes nearby? Otherwise, maybe you'd have better luck ordering from amazon or another online retailer.

andabigmac · #**144** 11/15/12, 03:34 PM

Aww Jeez Michelle. Words escape me. I'm done crying for now so hopefully I can type something coherent. And I'm sorry but I don't think I'll have much of a sense of humor about this.

You are getting so much good advice here. I second or third the coconut oil. It does have to be raw virgin coconut oil. I think Costco now sells a decent one. Its Nutiva brand, I think. If you have a health food store near you they'll hook you up too. I use Wilderness Family brand. I use it for everything and my goats try to eat it out of the jar.

My other suggestion would be kefir instead of yogurt. Kefir has so many more beneficial bacteria than yogurt. There is milk and water kefir. Water kefir would probably be accepted by her better. You can add her prunes to it so its prune flavored. Here is a place that sells it and has info on it Composition of Water Kefir Grains: Bacteria and Yeasts and another REALLY in-depth one Dom's About Kefir in-site .

My son has been having a lot of bowel problems. He went in for a colonoscopy recently. He's 20. He has early stage problems that the dr said could probably be controlled by diet. He's doing the coconut oil and kefir. He's doing some other things that wouldn't be suitable for a goat such as bone broths. I do have to wonder if gelatin would help her? It helps troubled bowels. I know its hooves and hides etc but there doesn't seem to be a lot to lose here. Just a thought.

Another thing that my son said helps immensely is licorice root. Health Benefits of Licorice Root I have some root pieces and he swallows a few like pills everyday. None of this helps overnight though. It would be for more long term. You could get some tea blends for stomach ailments at the grocery store that have licorice in there. Just check the label. She may eat the tea bag contents without having to make tea.

I'm just throwing stuff out there. Everyone has been giving you great advice. I'm sure everyone has said all of this already because the people here are smart and are fueled by a deep love for you and Gretta.

Tell me what I can do to help. I have a ton of licorice root. I would be happy to send you some to try. I dropped my kefir grain container last week and shattered the jar so I had to buy new ones or I'd send you some. I also have a book called Patient Heal Thyself. I ordered one to help with my son and found another at the thrift store. The man who wrote it had Crohns and he talks about his struggle with it and some of his research. He's a doctor now. He has a company that sells health products. He plugs his but also tells you other good brands etc. The main thing he stresses is rebuilding your gut flora. Anyways, if you want I can send you my extra copy. If you're interested in looking at herbs and natural supplements for Gretta I would be happy to research what I can.

As for quality of life, my only suggestion is to pick 3 things that Gretta still enjoys doing now. When she won't or can't do those things anymore then maybe its her time. Whatever decision you make its the right one because it is yours. Any decision you make will be made out of love.

I said a while back that when I die I want to come back as one of your critters. I still do Sweetie. You are such a good mom to all of your babies. I would rather have a shorter life with someone like you whose heart overflows with love than a longer life elsewhere.

DH also wants me to tell you that he's sorry he didn't fix my computer earlier. I feel terrible because you were there for me when Ali was born and I was panicking. I won't let him live this down for quite a while. He is being my slave today as penance.

I am so sorry you're going through this. Let me know how I can help. I'm sending you all so much big love, prayers, good vibes and Reiki.

Minelson · #**145** 11/15/12, 04:29 PM

Thanks andabigmac. I am just so happy that it was computer problems and not something else!
The licorice root sounds like some good stuff...for me! It does say not to use with steroids and Gretta is on Prednisone. I will have to order the right coconut oil and I will do that. Also, I have Kefir in the freeezer but it's the milk kind. Should I order the water kind from the website you posted?
Gretta is doing really good today. She is happy and running around with the others with her little polertech jammies on.

I am planning on starting the intense antibiotic treatment that Calianne found for me...but I am getting cold feet about that. I'm scared of messing up her rumen too much. So I'm chewing on that today.
Can you reccomend a good place to order some of that licorice root tea?
Just having you back is help enough

Barleychown · #**146** 11/15/12, 05:13 PM

Kefir is a great idea, and culturing your own is simple and would save you a fair bit over having to buy yogurt all the time, especially if you do decide to go with the long course of antibiotics and such. Both kefir and coconut oil are also very soothing to the GI tract.

Lovin' FarmLife · #**147** 11/15/12, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

I have always found (have put down two horses and three dogs) that I agonized about it but when the animal had made the choice, it became perfectly clear. So now I operate under that principle- when the animal has stopped enjoying what was always dear to them, then it is time. And I now wait for that time without so much stress.

You are in touch with her and will know.

I so agree with this statement and have experienced it.

Minelson · #**148** 11/15/12, 07:22 PM

I'm on the Wilderness Family website and confused about which coconut oil to get..Centerfuged or pressed??

Jyllie63 · #**149** 11/15/12, 07:34 PM

Michelle, I order from here Search - coconut oil - iHerb.com and let me tell ya...it was speedy shipping

. They have several different coconut oils listed and licorice root tea

AND kefir water

Minelson · #**150** 11/15/12, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyllie63

Michelle, I order from here Search - coconut oil - iHerb.com and let me tell ya...it was speedy shipping

. They have several different coconut oils listed and licorice root tea

AND kefir water

Perfect Thanks!!!!

andabigmac · #**151** 11/15/12, 08:18 PM

I've heard mixed things about the use of licorice root. Mostly I've heard that small doses like my son takes are okay for long term use and with conventional meds. He takes two pieces the size of peas. He weighs about 200lbs. It doesn't take a lot for it to help. Unfortunately most people get the impression that because its natural they should take bunches of it. Small amounts are usually all that is needed for help with a chronic disorder. I'm doing some more research and I'll see if I can throw something together if for nothing else to stimulate her appetite and calm her guts. My mind has already been reeling with herbal possibilities. You could try feeding her comfrey and yarrow for instance. Comfrey Root Salves & Oils Benefits Herb Yarrow Benefits & Information I would need to look into their side effects to see if they would react to anything she's taking though.

I've been looking at Johnes and Crohns and herbal helps. I've found a few interesting websites. Colorado State University did an interesting study on Boswellia for chronic bowel issues. It's a bunch of confusing scientific jargon but there is a bit of English thrown in for people like me. Here's the website of the study http://csuvets.colostate.edu/pain/ar...0boswellia.pdf

I've been looking up more about Boswellia and I haven't been able to find any drug contradictions. Here is another study with an herbal regimen for Crohns. Using Herbs and Diet to Beat Crohn's Disease - Health News - redOrbit None of the herbs in this study are too expensive. Maybe with the strict antibiotic regimen she'll have it can become manageable at which point the herbs can be used for maintenance. I haven't really been looking too much at a cure just for symptom relief. I've been looking at the antibiotic regimen Calliann discussed. That sounds really promising. I'm a huge believer that conventional and herbal medicines can work together. Everything I've read today says that there is no quick fix for Johnes or Crohns. All of the studies I've read today about conventional and herbal treatments show results over periods of months and years. As for messing up her rumen, in the grand scheme of things her guts sound like they're a train wreck already. I would concentrate on getting her condition manageable then you can work on getting her healthy.

As for the kefir, I was thinking the water kefir would be more palatable. My goaties love it. They love the milk kefir though too. I would just keep trying to get raw, living foods down her. I would stay away from dairy although it would provide some much needed calories.

As for the tea, I've been trying to find one where all of the ingredients were safe. I found one. Traditional Medicinals sells one called Organic Throat Coat. Its ingredients are:

Organic Licorice Root (PhEur) 760 mg *

Organic Slippery Elm Bark (USP) 80 mg *

Organic Licorice Root Dry Aqueous Extract 60 mg *

Organic Marshmallow Root (PhEur) 60 mg *

Proprietary Blend: 1,040 mg

Organic Wild Cherry Bark (BHP) *

Organic Bitter Fennel Fruit (PhEur) *

Organic Cinnamon Bark (JP) *

Organic Sweet Orange Peel *

My only issue with this is it may become cost prohibitive. She would need to probably need to be on it for a bit before it really helped. I would try to find a way to replicate it buying bulk herbs and mixing them yourself. How are her kidneys and liver? This may cause some issues if she's on it for a while because of the wild cherry bark. I would copy this, take out the cherry bark and add some peppermint and boswellia and go from there if it were me. If you google all of these things along with crohns they are all helpful.

I'll keep looking and researching if this is something you're willing to try.

I just reread this and my thoughts are all over the place. Sorry about that. I guess I'm thinking out loud. If something sounds interesting but I muddled it up I will try to clear it up. Just let me know.

CaliannG · #**152** 11/15/12, 08:50 PM

andabigmac, according to the tests, her kidneys and liver are functioning well.

Can you put together an herbal treatment plan to go with the antibiotics and steroid? The aggressive plan it to wipe out the paratuberculosis bacteria, which is a sneaky, skulking thing, along with calming the inflammation and suppressing her immune system...not completely, but enough so it doesn't make any more colonies in her intestines.

What is needed is a treatment plan that will replenish the gut flora on a multi daily basis, and sooth that rough intestine so it can heal. What I *don't* know about herbal remedies will fill volumes, but you know plenty. If you can figure out a daily plan, with recipes, doses, etc., it would be such a blessing!

~hugs~

Creamers · #**153** 11/15/12, 10:12 PM

I'm so sorry

andabigmac · #**154** 11/15/12, 10:17 PM

Let me read all of the posts again and formulate a plan. I'm thinking initially introducing one herb at a time would probably be the best. In her weakened state I would hate to bombard her system with too much at once. It would be easier to see if she reacted adversely to one thing rather than something in a blend. Hypothetically, if Slippery Elm makes her go off feed, for instance, we just stop that and try some marshmallow root. If she does well with the Marshmallow we add some Boswellia, etc. Most of the ones in my last post were pretty safe and gentle for a compromised intestinal tract. There are a lot of possibilities I didn't even mention too. Basically, there's hope here in making her comfortable. If she doesn't have a reaction to Jehovah Witnesses and Tinker flesh she will probably be okay with any of the aforementioned remedies.

andabigmac · #**155** 11/15/12, 10:20 PM

If anyone else has any ideas I would love to hear them. Brainstorming is fun.

andabigmac · #**156** 11/15/12, 10:42 PM

What about sauerkraut? Or any naturally fermented veggie short of Kim Chi which would probably tear her guts out. Is there any reason anyone could think of that a goat could not eat sauerkraut or the juice? I'm not talking a giant bowl here. Maybe just a tablespoon a day. It would probably help jump start some beneficial bacteria in her guts. The salt is the only drawback I can think of. Is Gretta staying hydrated? If she is then the salt levels would probably be fine. Can you get raw, live sauerkraut there? I can send you some if you want to try it. I'm thinking out loud here again.

Ideas?

Minelson · #**157** 11/16/12, 06:16 AM

She is drinking water...one of the side effects of the pred.

You guys are awesome...I have to go to work for a few hours, I will re-read when I get home. I went to bed early last night and look at all the stuff I miss!
Part of the getting Gretta better/comfortable program is having me try to take better care of myself.

Sparkie · #**158** 11/16/12, 07:48 AM

I wouldn't worry about temporarily messing up her rumen with the antibiotics, that can be fixed. You need to do whatever you can do to get rid of the bacteria. Unless you can do that everything else is just a temporary help, not a fix. If it was me I'd get her on the antibiotics as fast as possible. That seems to me like her only long term chance. You have to keep your eye on the big picture.

Barleychown · #**159** 11/16/12, 10:33 AM

What about kombucha in very small amounts? Would the added easily absorbed b vitamins help?

andabigmac · #**160** 11/16/12, 10:46 AM

They certainly wouldn't hurt. You can actually buy it pre-made so she wouldn't have to worry about dealing with the scoby. I don't know if she even lives near a health food store although it can be ordered online too. I'm worried that all of this will be overwhelming to Michelle. She probably already feels like a pharmacist.