the hoo-hah watch is on...

Shayanna · #21 11/07/12, 03:26 PM

is calcium gluconate adequate? she is down and cannot stand up. still bright eyed and eating though? idk what this cmpk or whatever is you guys are talking about, but tsc does have calcium gluconate for cattle..... what is the dosing?

CaliannG · #22 11/07/12, 05:23 PM

You can USE calcium gluconate, it simple is not as complete as CMPK. (CMPK stands for "Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorus, Potassium", and is in the quantities needed to work together.) If it is calcium gluconate, 33% oral solution, use it in doe gatorade just like CMPK oral solution:

1 pint Calcium Solution
1/8th cup dark molasses (or, if you don't have that, corn syrup will work)
1 quart warm (or hot, if the temps are low where you are) water

Feed as much of that to the doe during and after labor as she wants to drink.

Shayanna · #23 11/07/12, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

You can USE calcium gluconate, it simple is not as complete as CMPK. (CMPK stands for "Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorus, Potassium", and is in the quantities needed to work together.) If it is calcium gluconate, 33% oral solution, use it in doe gatorade just like CMPK oral solution:

1 pint Calcium Solution
1/8th cup dark molasses (or, if you don't have that, corn syrup will work)
1 quart warm (or hot, if the temps are low where you are) water

Feed as much of that to the doe during and after labor as she wants to drink.

made our last minute run to tsc. turns out they did have cmpk, and i think its a pint bottle. hopefully this works. she has tons of dry straw, but she can't walk or stand, which makes for quite a mess. poor baby. also got some dewormer and tums to prevent this from happening again.

Suzyq2u · #24 11/07/12, 05:45 PM

No advice, but hope everything else goes smoothly!

CaliannG · #25 11/07/12, 06:13 PM

I will give you some warning: If she is badly calcium deficient, and hard labor goes on for over a half an hour (you will be able to see contractions in hard labor), you will HAVE to take her to the vet for CMPK injections, or you will lose her. The oral stuff may not be enough.

This is just a warning. She may not be that bad off with the calcium. She may be fine.

Be careful and watch. If she stops pushing after she has gone into hard labor, still cannot get up, and looks weak, get her to the vet.

You mentioned she is bright eyed and eating...that is a good sign. Just....watch, and be careful.

Backfourty,MI. · #26 11/07/12, 06:38 PM

How is your doe doing tonight? Any babies yet & is momma OK?

Shayanna · #27 11/07/12, 07:29 PM

no babies yet. momma is still the same. i'm trying to check on her as much as possible but with a newborn in the house i can only do so much. she is eating plenty of hay. hasn't drank any of her gatorade yet but we will see. i will also crush up some tums in her grain in the morning.

GoldenWood Farm · #28 11/07/12, 07:47 PM

Not saying she isn't calcium deficient but I also like to add before panicking if she stays in hard labor for over 1/2 an hour I would go in a bit and feel around. The reason for this is she could have a kid in a weird or wrong position that she can't push out hence why she is having hard contractions and can't seem to get a kid out. I have noticed more often in does that where calcium deficient that they had a sluggish/slow labor with lighter contractions versus a heavy labor (granted this has just been in my experience).

I had a doe deliver one kid and have heavy contractions then just stop. I felt more kids in her and she just wasn't progressing. I let her be for an hour because she wasn't in distress but I finally went in to find a kid with her back presented the the cervix, there was no way for the mom to deliver her that way. I helped the kid turn around and she came out perfect with her sister right behind her.

Praying everything goes well with your girl! Eating and bright eyed are very good signs

.

Justine

Suzyq2u · #29 11/08/12, 06:47 AM

How's she doing Shayanna?

Shayanna · #30 11/08/12, 07:40 AM

same. i feel like a bad goat mom though. she drank a little goat gatorade, she loved the tums, scarfed her grain and is happily munching hay. yesterday when she fell we got a good look at her hooves and they are bad. i guess we didnt think to check her hooves since all the other goats hooves are fine. bad part is fern wont let us trim without freaking out, and idk if i want to stress her too much. the vulva is still shiny, pink, and puffed out. the ctxs, if thats what they are haven't increased in intensity or frequency. she still cant get up. with her gut size she cant seem to get her legs under her to stand. she wants to though. i also feel bad cause she can't help pooping and peeing all over herself. stools are still normal and ther is no smell to her urine. i'm trying to keep the area as clean as possible. i also left a message for the goat farm down the road to see if someone with more experience than i could come take a look. i dont really know them, but hopefully they are friendly.

GoldenWood Farm · #31 11/08/12, 12:16 PM

It could be that a kid is sitting on a nerve wrong. I have seen it happen before though not to the extent of a doe actually totally going down. I hope the people down the road are friendly and can come take a look. It is always nice to have an extra set of eyes

.

Is there any way to help her stand up even just for a little bit? Can you take a picture of her hooves so we might see how bad they are? When you say she freaks out when you clip her hooves in what way do you mean? If she is already laying down and you can get some help holding her you might be able to clip them while she is down. I would just be slow and steady, maybe hold her foot for a while first and then do one clip and let her rest for a bit. It would be a slow process but it might help her stay relaxed.

Justine

Shayanna · #32 11/08/12, 01:06 PM

I can't post pictures from my phone and that is my only internet source. I can email them to someone. I will send hoohah pictures also keep in mind she has a rear foot deformity so they may look a little goofy.

Shayanna · #33 11/08/12, 01:11 PM

I can't post pictures from my phone and that is my only internet source. I can email them to someone. I will send hoohah pictures also keep in mind she has a rear foot deformity so they may look a little goofy.

GoldenWood Farm · #34 11/08/12, 01:28 PM

You can email them to me and I can post them. My email is goldenwoodfarm@gmail.com

Justine

Shayanna · #35 11/08/12, 05:00 PM

the goat people from down the road came over. they can't figure it out. i'm not over or underfeeding, her eyes are the right color so wormload isn't too high. she just doesn't want to use her back legs. but she is holding her head like she is uncomfortable and grinding her teeth.
he didn't think she seemed too deficient, but maybe there is something neurological, something pressing on the spine. what i thought were ctxs were shivers, and have thankfully stopped.

also, i recounted. she isn't even due until the 26th. i'm not hoping for kids soon anymore. i just want a healthy fern.

GoldenWood Farm · #36 11/08/12, 05:27 PM

It sounds like the kids are pushing on a nerve. It will cause pain (hence the grinding teeth and shivers) and like I said before I have never seen it cause a doe to go fully down I can see where it could. I have seen a doe go "lame" over it because a kid was sitting JUST right on a nerve. If I was you I would try and get her up and moving even if you make a sling to help with her back end. It is good for her and the kids to try and get some movement in.

I am truly at a loss at what it could be other than a severe pinched nerve. I would encourage you to help her get exercise or even just stand a few minutes a day. Exercise helps the babies get into a better position before delivery and helps keep mom in shape.

Justine

GoldenWood Farm · #37 11/08/12, 07:57 PM

Here are Shayanna's pictures she sent me.

the hoo-hah watch is on... - Goats

To be honest on her feet it looks like you let the toe grow too long. I am not sure by what you mean by her hooves have a deformity. I wish I could see them in person.

Justine

Squeaky McMurdo · #38 11/08/12, 08:35 PM

As someone who gets crippling hip pain when I'm pregnant I can sympathize with poor Fern!!

If it's a baby sitting on a nerve I wonder if a few Spinning Babies techniques modified for a goat would help. Walking around is the simplest way to reposition babies but if you can't get her up and make her walk perhaps you can lift her hindquarters for a minute either having someone strong hold her back end or maybe you could prop it up on a bale of hay or something? Inversion

Like someone else said, maybe try getting her up in a sling. If you do that you could help her rock her hips or do something like this

Shayanna · #39 11/08/12, 09:26 PM

pictures dont do it justice. her toes grow forward and upwards. you can still trim the bottoms fine but the very front grows wierd. the woman we got her from had a vet look at them once and to correct it she would have to be sedated, but since it doesnt bother her, and the "toes" you see arent a part she actually walks on. idk the technical terms for the parts of the foot but i will try to get better pics in the morning if she will let me.
we are going to put a rug under her (so she can't slip) and keep helping her try to get up. i will try some of the kid spinning things though if i can. she is definitely still trying to get herself up, but isnt putting any effort into her back end.

GoldenWood Farm · #40 11/08/12, 09:32 PM

It sounds like she has a really shallow heel. I have noticed Nubians tend to get that snow shoe look anyways but I wonder if she has a really shallow heel which then allows her toes to grow weird. Hmmm a puzzle for sure

.

She looks really healthy though, a nice shiny coat and she looks like she is in good weight.

Justine