This is what your kitchen looks like when you have a sick goat

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2...D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2...D550/ry%3D400/

Love the medicine bottle in the lower left side.

Looks like Gretta may have to choke down quite a bit of meds....

Your kitchen is beautiful! It shows how much you care about Gretta :)

No one cares about your kitchen, besides it looks Great! You can't be fretting over that stuff while your trying to take care of Gretta & all the other little critters. Those few dishes will be there tomorrow & I know your hubby understands.

I sure wish they'd figure out what's going on with the poor little thing.

Were you giving her the replamin and having the Right Now Onyx out at the same time?

Yes. I started with just doing one dose a week so I left the other minerals out. They don't eat much of the RNO. But I see now that could have been a mistake. Also I started with 5 cc's but then found out since they are mini's they should get less so I cut back 3 cc's. I'm going to find out how much selenium is in the RNO. There is Selenium in the Mare and foal pellets she has been getting too. And with the drought there are more weeds eaten that have high selenium content.

I was finally able to catch a urine sample from Gretta this morning. It was strange because at the end of the flow there was a "string" like thing hanging there. Not any color, but I assume mucus. I'm waiting for the vet to call me back now.
The results of the test
Urobilinogan - normal
Glucose - Negative
Ketone - Neg
Biliruben - +++
Protein - +30
Nitrate - Positive
Leukocetes - Neg
Blood - Neg
PH - 9
Specific Gravity - 1.015

The nitrate positive scares me. I don't know if that's high for a goat or not. BUT, I was researching nitrate toxicity last night..because of the number of animals on here that go through what Gretta is going through is worrisome to me.

The hay and grain this year are in question when it comes to aflatoxin, nitrates, etc. I believe someone posted..somewhere on this site..that the USDA had raised it's "acceptable" levels of toxicity in feed because of the drought no doubt.

That got me thinking..if animals..like Gretta..have youth or age working against them, if they have just one thing a wee bit off and eat hay/grain that is not great. Well..a person might see sickness in that specific animal but not the herd. But over time..if the herd kept eating, and there was a build-up..it would (over time) affect them all.

I know I have been a real worry wart this year..my poor hubby. I am still concerned. Especially with some of the hays, pastures and corn.

Now there may be nothing to this..and if I am going down the wrong track, I hope someone can set me straight so I can quit worrying about my own herd. Dexters and goats and poultry. It's just that there were a bazillion acres of corn and beans that were stressed beyond the farmers control. They harvested what they had..then it's up to each elevator how they test and what they test for. Just sayin'..

The string like mucus at the end could be she's in heat?

Wasn't Gretta having problems before you started the Replamin though?
Any results from the blood work yet or just the urine sample?

Yes she could be in heat because I'm in heat and we basically have the same schedule :o
I did notice a bit of weight loss before the Replamin. That was when I found the lump on her throat. That was in May. She continued to loose weight and that's when I had her teeth checked. Then she did the stumble tumble shake and I rushed her to the vet and she had a fever and we started the Nuflor. That was September 21st. She showed improvement on the Nuflor until this week.
I have her blood results posted on #13 of this thread.

Common Diseases of Goats - Health - GOATWORLD.COM

Nitrate poisoning = staggering, urine that is positive for nitrate.
It says vit c and methyline is treatment.

Hey Minelson..what about that lump on the throat? Is it gone or still there? What did the vet say about it?

I had it tested and it came back Neg for CL. All 3 goats were negative serum test CL and CAE. Gretta's was a culture to rule out CL. Then suddenly the lump went from golf ball size to softball size. I bombarded her with antibiotics and it shrunk back down to golf ball size. Then all of a sudden...the golf ball was gone.

If she has nitrate poisoning it would have to come from the pastures and browse. I'm still on last years hay (pre drought) and the hay I purchased this year is pre drought also. The Mare & Foal I was feeding her was purchased last winter. I don't know about the BOSS having any nitrates in it. I will run this by my vet. I am sitting here waiting for him to call me. I guess I should go do the dishes while I wait

Wow Minelson.. just don't have a clue of what's going on. The nitrates would almost have to be coming from two sources..like hay and grain.. or pasture and water. I suspect your vet wanted the antibiotics to clear up infection of the gut. She just doesn't seem to be absorbing what you are feeding her.

Gotta leave for a bit..lol..I'm too invested in Gretta.

From what I'm reading on nitrate poisoning, it seems that it comes on quickly and death happens quickly too. Also a telltale sign is brown colored blood. I saw her blood Thurs and it was red. So I don't know. I will ask the vet...IF HE EVER CALLS ME BACK!!! GRRRRR I hate waiting!!

Just talked to vet. Bad news first...he said goats should not get copper. >sigh< I questioned him on that and he said he is not a pro on goats but from what he knows about sheep and goats they should not have copper. So now I know Gretta has been lumped in with sheep in his mind on certain things.
He doesn't think it is selenium toxicity. He said the west side of the state has big problems with that with horses...but not this side of the state.
He has to do ask some questions and research the nitrate positive on the dip stick.
He said if she was loosing protein through the urine the result would be much higher. She is loosing some but he still feels she is loosing most through her gut. So I am to continue doing what I'm doing and get some alfalfa bales to feed her.

~hugs~ Oh Minelson! This is so frustrating and sad for you!

Question: Your herd has had the full panel of tests in the past, right? Johne's disease, Brucella? If not, I would get those done, just in case.

~ponders~ I am drawing a blank also. I don't think it is selenium poisoning, you aren't on shale there and you have pretty land, with trees and such, which would not be true is you lived in a truly selenium-high area. With the drought it COULD be nitrite poisoning in pasture plants, but that generally only happens in fertilized pastures, and I don't think you have used fertilizers.

~sighs~ If you haven't already done so in the past, do the tests for Johne's and Brucella. Other than that...pray. I'll be praying with you.

No I have not tested for those. How are those diseases transmitted? They have not been brought up by any vets. Just CL and I had them test for CAE at the same time. All negative.

The girl just needed some alfalfa!! She is polishing it off. Frankie and Flossie had some but then wondered off and Gretta kept on cowin on it! I need to find more now...good stuff. Vet said that will help with her protein loss.
006 - YouTube

I'm so glad she's digging into some food. Yay for alfalfa!

Here is another video of her eating...
007 - YouTube

I will be posting more through out the night. I'm still a bit hung up that it's something in her mouth or throat. But maybe she is just really throwing me off and showing different behaviors becasue her gut is off.. IDK. :(

Is that the way she would normally eat? I know how different they can be with their habits, but, it seems she is just picking at that alfalfa. If it were my mini goats, they would have huge amounts hanging out of their mouths, like big mouthfulls. Kind of looks like she is nosing around it alot, but only taking a strand or two at a time.
If my goats were eating like that, I would think something hurts in the throat, or mouth.
BUT, maybe some goats are more prissy eaters?

They test for Johnes with a poo sample but I'm not sure how they test for Brucellus since I've never had any of my goats tested for that either.


Some of my goats eat very dainty & take a strand or 2 of hay at a time then their are a couple that grab a mouthful.
I'm so glad Gretta is liking the alfalfa I hope you can find some more bales to tide you over for the winter.

I'm going to pull that goat coat out & measure it tonight, I just got your PM about the measurements.

I miss you, Minelson. My life has been about like yours since I've been home. I got 2 of my stresses taken care of this week and can now focus on the buck show. I am glad Gretta is eating the alfalfa. I have been following your threads and the only thing I can say is...

Last year we had a couple goats that got thin. We had wormed and done all of the "normal" stuff. I, too, felt that one, in particular was "gut" related and discussed it with Lou. She said to give Neomycin orally at 5cc on day 1 and 3cc on days 2-5. I penned her with a partner and fed them ALFALFA for several months. She bred for the first time and kidded in June. When this whole ordeal started with her, she looked like 9 miles of dirt road. About the middle, she caught my eye on day and I said, "Salty, you're an old lump of coal, aren't you?" After freshening and milking for 4 months now, she's definitely a diamond! Her color has even changed.

I believe she would have been dead if not for the Neomycin. And LOTS AND LOTS of Probios. I buy it in the same big tube as the Replamin. She sucked it from the tube!! They can come back. Continue to be diligent!! You will both make it, my friend!

Min, sent you a PM about the coat.

I'll try to get more video of her eating. The way she is eating is just "off" hard to put a finger to it but maybe it is just more dainty. But the way she eats a cookie sometimes I think Dang! there has got to be something wrong with your mouth????I'm on vet

Sorry! Power outage!!! and I forgot what I was going to say

Should I start that now and dump what the vet has me doing? Or should I give this Tetrecycline a chance...Was this a mini goat that you did this with?
I am giving her probios and fortified vit b every day. I am trying to keep this as invasive free as possible. Thank you so much!

Johne's is transmitted through fecal matter, and they test for it with a cultured fecal.

Brucella is a sexually transmitted disease. You need to draw blood and get your vet to sign off on it to get the test done.

She doesn't have that then...She would not have ever been around any contaminated fecal matter. And she doesn't have sex ;) :)

Most goats are infected with Johne's disease when they are 2-4 months old...but symptoms do not arise until well after full maturity.

Brucella, I agree is unlikely...but I know she has kids, but I am not sure of the last time she was bred? My brain gets foggy.

I was "told" she had a single the first time. I had her the second time and she had twins :)
If she happens to get another blood draw again I will ask about testing for those diseases.

That was 4 years ago. The twins were born Jan 16th 2008

Well, Brucella tends to clear up on its own after awhile, it just leaves the animal sterile and unthrifty.

I am really worried about Johne's, though. You don't know where she was when she was 2-4 months old, and it is a disease that stays dormant for years. If she hasn't had a Jone's test, I would get one.

Again, I can only go by human blood test results, but high nitrates in a urine sample means there is bacteria SOMEWHERE, nitrates are a waste product from bacteria, it doesn't necessarily mean nitrate poisoning.

Also with the bilirubin in the urine and the lab blood tests, it sounds to me like something with her liver, perhaps an abscess on the liver. The kidneys sound good but Im suspicious about the liver now, along with the nitrates that show there is bacteria somewhere in her body that is shedding nitrates.

Thanks for explaining that about the nitrates. Hopefully the tetrecycline will get rid of what ever it is.

Now she doesn't want the alfalfa anymore. It's like she needs something different to eat every day and goes to town on it and then decides to hate it. :(

maybe its upsetting her stomach and so she doesn't want to eat it. I'd xray her just to make sure she didn't have a forign object but my gut still says mineral

Are you sure she isn't really a cat in disguise? :D

I hope you find out what is going on with Gretta, I think the whole forum has adopted her

Sounds like she is picking around for the perfect comfort food. Just like us when we're not feeling well. Too bad its too late in the fall for some nice leafy greens to nibble. Wonder what the goat equivalent of chicken soup is? Its good that she has an appetite, even if she can't decide what she wants.