Alpine or Saanen

crazy4equines · #21 10/16/12, 12:00 PM

Oberhasli's have the same length of hair as a Saanan, Alpines and nubians. Here is a pic of my reg. oberhasli and I have to agree I love their quite personaility and they are very personable to. I have crossed my saanan to a oberhasli and and I got a cream colored goat, I will post a picture of the baby as well.

This is the only pic that I can find of my oberhasli and saanan cross as we sold him, don't mind the big orange spot on his side as that is just iodione that spilled.
Alpine or Saanen - Goats

And her is my Oberhasli doe
Alpine or Saanen - Goats

CaliannG · #22 10/16/12, 12:41 PM

If you look at ADGA's Top Ten breed leaders in milk production, the TOP producing doe in 2011 was a Saanen, at 6080lbs for the year.

However, below that one, Top doe, the Alpines produced more than the Saanens. The Number 2 Saanen in the country produced 4760lbs of milk for the year, while the Number 2 Alpine doe for the year produced 5480lbs for the year. And on down. The Number 3 Alpine produced more than the Number 3 Saanen, etc.

Alpines are THE most popular breed for commercial goat dairies in the country. If you walk into 6 goat dairies, 4 of them will be full of Alpines. 1 will have Saanens, and 1 will have Nubians (for cheese production).

I have never had bad tasting milk from an Alpine. I have had bad tasting milk from most other breeds (except Lamanchas, I haven't had Lamancha milk), but never from an Alpine. Of course, bad tasting milk comes from ill-managed goats. Due to their consistent color, it is harder to tell when a Saanen is mineral deficient, or has a high worm load.

I have had two Alpines that went to the vet. One was for an accident. The other was a kid that I bought that came with coccidia and I needed some antibiotics for him. That is it. All of the Alpines I have, and that was the only two vet visits I have had.

Of my alpines, one is being dried off next month, she produced 14lbs per day during half of her cycle. She is currently bred, which is why she is being dried off next month. The 2 FF's, who are still producing over a gallon per day, will milk through the winter. They will not be re-bred this fall. I haven't had any problems getting an Alpine to milk through the winter. I haven't had any problems getting a Nubian or a Nigerian Dwarf to milk through the winter, either.

When it comes to hardiness, both Saanens and Alpines are NOT considered hardy breeds. Nigerian Dwarfs are the hardiest. Nubians are a close second. Saanens and Alpines tend to be lumped together at the bottom of the pack in hardiness. However, oddly, considering their white color, Saanens do not handle hot summers as well as Alpines. Alpines deal better with the summers found in the Grain Belt (Kansas, Nebraska, even down here in Texas) better than Saanens. Saanens fair a bit better in exceptionally cold, wet winters, like those found in Maine, Minnesota, Great Lakes Regions, and the NorthWest.

Now, saying all of that...... AMERICAN Alpines are bred for production and temperament. Mine do not fight. I have not had a single instance of abortion due to fighting. Mine are mellow, sweet, and give wonderful, abundant milk. And while they ARE Americans, there has not been a grade goat in my bloodlines since 1973. This is true of a lot of breeders of American Alpines.

Which leads me to wonder. Hollowdweller, do your friends raise French (purebred) Alpines? Because the French (purebloods) are NOT bred for production, except for a few lines (Redwood Hills has a line of production-bred Frenchies, as did Pearl Valley, and one nice lady here in Austin...). I have found French Alpines to be terribly inbred, not very good producers, and more than somewhat frail. Among Alpine people, everyone knows that the PB herd books were closed too soon, and that meant a severe deficiency in the gene pool. That is also why you don't see discrimination against Americans among Alpine people, which does not hold to be true for any other breed of dairy goat besides LaManchas (whose PB herdbook is still open). Among other dairy breeds, Nubian, Toggenburg, Nigerian Dwarf, etc., Americans are considered nothing better than upstart bush goats. With Alpines, the Americans are often preferred. I haven't seen a PB Alpine in the Top 10 producers since 2008, and then it was only one.

So, everything negative that you have said about Alpines I can agree with, IF you are talking about PB French Alpines. Except for a small handful of breeders, PB's are bred for conformation and color, for the show circuit, NOT for production, hardiness, will to milk, and temperament.

American Alpines, though, are the workhorses of the dairy goat industry.

Hollowdweller · #23 10/16/12, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Which leads me to wonder. Hollowdweller, do your friends raise French (purebred) Alpines?

I'm talking about about 10 difft breeders or more, so both. The best ones I've been around came from mostly Coach Farms stuff. Mamm Key, the ones I've been around were also very good.

The worst ones Cherry Glen, Stump Hollow, Tempo.

Actually the best milkers and most hardy were the French this homesteading family had raised for 30 years. They didn't milk what the Coach Farms did but they got close. But they were the biggest fighters.

Quote:

However, below that one, Top doe, the Alpines produced more than the Saanens. The Number 2 Saanen in the country produced 4760lbs of milk for the year, while the Number 2 Alpine doe for the year produced 5480lbs for the year. And on down. The Number 3 Alpine produced more than the Number 3 Saanen, etc

Top 10 isn't a good indicator. You want to go to the BREED AVERAGES

Alpine or Saanen - Goats

Quote:

With Alpines, the Americans are often preferred. I haven't seen a PB Alpine in the Top 10 producers since 2008, and then it was only one.

Same with Saanens. When I first got into goats nobody liked Americans around here. Now purebreds are almost dying out.

That's great you haven't had any of the problems I described with yours. Remember that I said that was my experience it wasn't an indictment of all alpines

cmharris6002 · #24 10/16/12, 04:45 PM

I love my Sable Saanens!! They milk over 2 gallons a day, have a sweet calm temperament and get along great with my Nubians

If you decide to go with Sables, I'm in North East Kansas

copperpennykids · #25 10/16/12, 05:00 PM

Saanens are great.

Affectionate, regal, (they aren't called the Queens of Dairy Goats just because of the large amount of milk that they give!) and easy keepers.

We live here in North Idaho - we don't have to shave our girls to milk them. Generally speaking they have a fairly short and smooth coat. They handle our winters just fine - so very hardy. Strong will to milk, love to be milked, live to be milked. They are easy going, so very little fighting and they are quiet. We usually "hear" a gentle mmm-mm-mmmm? when we are late for milking, otherwise, not noisy. They love their kisses - one won't leave the milk room until she gets her kiss.

They also love routine - milking order is the milking order, they always go to their milk stand, and they are incredibly easy to train to the milk stand - maybe 2 or 3 days and they stand rock solid. We can even go out and milk ours in the pasture and they will just stand there for you, without being tied.

Did I mention that we really really like Saanens? LOL

PS There was a "survey" done once, asking folks what was their favorite X with goats - lots of different answers, but the common factor was a Saanen crossed with each breed - Saanen X Nubian, Saanen X LaMancha, Saanen X Alpine, etc. Snubians seemed to be the overall big favorite.

IndyGardenGal · #26 10/16/12, 05:08 PM

When it comes down to it, see what you have close to you and/or in your budget that comes from good, healthy stock.

That said, I loved my Saanens.

KnowOneSpecial · #27 10/16/12, 07:05 PM

Add me to the I LOVE MY SAANENS List!!

My doe is the sweetest and most gentle doe I'd ever want to meet! She comes when called and she hops on the stand like a pro. I let her out to nibble on weeds around the farm adn she never runs off or acts doofy like my Boer does.

I also have two Snubians. (Saanen x Nubian). They're pretty neat, too, but a bit more flighty. They get spooked easier when they're out doing my weed whacking. But those EARS! I love those airplane ears! They look like they can take flight at any second!

ne prairiemama · #28 10/16/12, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmharris6002

I love my Sable Saanens!! They milk over 2 gallons a day, have a sweet calm temperament and get along great with my Nubians

If you decide to go with Sables, I'm in North East Kansas

Are the black and white and cream colored ones Sable Saanens? Those are VERY pretty! We are in SE Nebraska so we can't be too far from you

Thanks everyone! I'm enjoying reading all of these comments so much!

mekasmom · #29 10/16/12, 08:04 PM

I wanted to add that I personally think Saanen milk tastes much better than nubian, and honestly, even better than the alpine. I've never been super fond of nubian milk though.

ani's ark · #30 10/17/12, 02:52 AM

Only ever had the one milker, a Saanen, and she has been wonderful as a pet and production animal, my first goat. Super placid and sweet natured. Quite regal - that's a good description. Interestingly though, her first kid was a single buckling - a British Alpine cross. And he was black with white face stripes - definite Alpine markings, out of a Saanen mother. He had loads more character, much more smoochy, and also a lot more vain and pushy at times. He would have made someone a great pet.

cmharris6002 · #31 10/17/12, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Are the black and white and cream colored ones Sable Saanens? Those are VERY pretty! We are in SE Nebraska so we can't be too far from you

Sables can be any color but mine are black and white and cream colored

**mygoat** · #32 10/17/12, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

I wanted to add that I personally think Saanen milk tastes much better than nubian, and honestly, even better than the alpine. I've never been super fond of nubian milk though.

Me either. I dislike nubians all around, lol. I have zero idea why they're as popular as they are.

I wouldn't mind Saanens if I had some other breed too... Just all white seems 'boring'. I have always liked Sables. The majority of the ones I"ve seen are sundgau pattern, which I've always thought was lovely.

ne prairiemama · #33 10/17/12, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmharris6002

Sables can be any color but mine are black and white and cream colored

Ooooh neato! THAT I could get used to lol! Do you test for the goatie diseases and all that? Will you have any for sale this spring? About how much would you charge? Maybe I should pm you lol.

cmharris6002 · #34 10/17/12, 10:23 AM

I test through Biotracking and will send out samples later this month To verify pregnancy and yearly CAE testing. So far, I have never owned a goat that has ever tested positive for CAE

I will have kids to sell from these three does so pm me if you are interested

chamoisee · #35 10/17/12, 10:34 AM

If you have Nubians and are going to interbreed the new breed with them, get Saanens. Breeding intelligent, naughty drama queens (Alpine X Nubian) isn't such a hot idea IMHO. I've never seen an animal of that cross that I liked, although I suppose they exist. Saanen-Nubian crosses, on the other hand, have the potential to have the best of both breeds, high butterfat plus improved production and a calmer, quieter disposition.

I say this as an Alpine enthusiast, by the way....

ne prairiemama · #36 10/20/12, 08:52 AM

cmh I'll pm you after Sabbath to find out more! (we keep Sabbath sunset fri to sunset sat)

chamoisee · #37 10/20/12, 02:49 PM

The good thing about Saanens being all white: they are being bred for production and quality, not color patterns and spots!

ne prairiemama · #38 10/20/12, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamoisee

If you have Nubians and are going to interbreed the new breed with them, get Saanens. Breeding intelligent, naughty drama queens (Alpine X Nubian) isn't such a hot idea IMHO. I've never seen an animal of that cross that I liked, although I suppose they exist. Saanen-Nubian crosses, on the other hand, have the potential to have the best of both breeds, high butterfat plus improved production and a calmer, quieter disposition.

I say this as an Alpine enthusiast, by the way....

Thank you

Your description gave dh and I both a good laugh too lol!

ani's ark · #39 10/20/12, 11:53 PM

I find the sight of a herd of pure white goats against green grass very striking and attractive. Just my biased 2c...

Westwood · #40 10/21/12, 12:54 AM

American alpines are the producers in our neck of the Ozarks. You can chase butter fat with breeds and feed, but when it comes down to production, Alpines prevail.