Alfalfa woes... (pictures added)

wintrrwolf · #21 09/30/12, 07:22 PM

This chaffhay is to replace hay and grain?

CaliannG · #22 09/30/12, 07:36 PM

Chaffaye replaces hay and alfalfa pellets. You still feed grain (or fodder sprouts) to those that usually get grain.

I am looking at going to a Chaffaye/Fodder Sprouts system this year to cut costs. So far, in this short experiment with Chaffaye, I have gotten about 1-2% waste. With hay, I get about 30% wasted, and with alfalfa pellets, about 10% wasted. The Chaffaye is more expensive ($13.50 for a 50lb bag) than either a comparable bale of hay ($10 per bale for horse quality hay here) or a 50lb bag of alfalfa pellets ($11.85 per bag right now), but considering the lack of waste, and the fact that I would be buying BOTH hay and alfalfa pellets this winter, it comes out MUCH cheaper.

LoneStrChic23 · #23 09/30/12, 09:33 PM

I'm experimenting with it right now & have cut Bleu's grain by 1/4 & am feeding her about 2lbs of Chaffhaye a day and I'm going to see if she can still maintain weight & production. So far, so good, but I haven't had enough time to see results. Will report back later, but if this works, then I'll replace my alfalfa pellets, & cut my grain amounts back a lil too.... I still feed hay, simply because I have 10 rounds that I got for free

If you want to try it, call the office & speak to Kimber & ask her where you can get some small sample packs to see if your herd likes it before you invest in a bale..... She shipped me several 1 1/2lb samples in the mail to try... Super nice gal

My friend feeds Chaffhaye to her does & feeds very lil grain.... I'm talking a few cups per day for full size does & they do well on it. She still feeds hay though as they cut/bale their own.

Caliann have you checked the website for dealers near you that aren't feed stores? Acco here is carrying it now & chargeing $13.99 per 50lbs, but the individual I buy from charges $12.50... He said feed stores are generally charging more.....

JohnP · #24 10/02/12, 07:54 AM

Wow, my tsc has the standlee pellets on sale for 9.99 right now. Guess I better get some.

CJBegins · #25 10/02/12, 08:16 AM

John, I saw that. I will be making a run on Wednesday.

CaliannG · #26 10/02/12, 10:33 AM

Crystal, the only other Chaffaye dealer near me was a small, family owned feed store in Wixon Valley called McAsh Feeds. Great place, lovely people! He kept baby chicks for sale year round, and preferred heritage breeds.

~sighs~ I was so disappointed when he shut down. He was also the only place one could get Cargill products.

But it is really tough to compete with the Co-Op, and he was only 7 miles away from the Co-Op. Most folks (including me) have an account with the Co-op that lets us do custom mixes, and contract for price freezes. He simply could not offer that kind of service.

julieq · #27 10/02/12, 09:11 PM

Standlee hay is just east of us. But I don't know what it's selling for nowadays as I have only purchased their compressed alfalfa in the past when I absolutely had to. Way too expensive for us. I think we paid about 8.00 per bale last spring until our regular guy could haul us some.

We can get pure alfalfa right down the road delivered at 700.00 per stacker load, which is about 8.00 for approximately 70 lb bale.

Sounds like Texas prices are through the roof!

CaliannG · #28 10/02/12, 09:58 PM

Texas prices for alfalfa are always through the roof, as we have alfalfa weevils and blister beetles down here, o we don't grow the stuff.

When the midwest is getting drought, though, prices are REALLY high!

LoneStrChic23 · #29 10/03/12, 07:47 AM

Yea, I've never seen "affordable" alfalfa here in Texas. In the town they grow the Chaffhaye here in Texas they have more reasonable alfalfa (though from what I hear Chaffhaye now owns a majority of those feilds)..... I bought hay up there 4 years ago as we were in the area.... Feilds are up at high elevations & flood irrigated. Beautiful hay & I bought 65lb alfalfa squares for $6.75 out of the field & freaky pretty, heavy grass squares for $3 each.

I'll likely NEVER see hay prices like that again.

CaliannG · #30 10/03/12, 08:03 AM

Crystal, my DH is researching DIY Chaffaye. LOL

He was using me as a sounding board after we re-did the milking stall last night. His thought is that Chaffaye is fermented and bagged wet, so that you are paying for a lot of water. While pellets and cubes are completely dry weight. So he is going to try getting a bag of cubes (which are cheaper than pellets down here), soaking them until they are soft, mixing them with a few handfuls of Chaffaye to inoculate, putting them in bags and using the shop vac to suck the air out of the bags, seal them and let them ferment a while, and see what happens.

He is hoping to get something Chaffaye-like, but twice the volume. I'll let you know how that experiment works out.

LoneStrChic23 · #31 10/03/12, 10:21 AM

Sounds like a plan!

I wonder if it would be comparable to Chaffhaye if you used the dried cubes though? The Chaffhaye is fresh alfalfa, they add beneficial inoculates, mist with a tiny bit of molasses to feed the beneficial buggies, then let ferment in air tight bags for at least 2 weeks...

I wonder if you could get comparable nutrition using fully dried alfalfa? Would some Chaffhaye mixed in be enough inoculant to make it work?? Maybe if you could get a jumbo yeast colony like the one in my picture (which BTW, that one went all the way to the bottom of the bag..... Lots O' good buggies there) & use that?

Oh! You know those Space Saver bags on the infomercials? I have a few of the giant cubes that hold insane amounts of stuff..... You could try that.

**mygoat** · #32 10/03/12, 11:19 AM

Hmmm. If tums have 750mg of CaCarbonate, then you'd have to feed about 35 of them to give 26g of calcium. Thats only 17.5 tums per feeding! (omg!)

I weighed my tablespoon of Calcium Carbonate that I put on the grain - it's about 25g each feeding. Giving it 2x and at such a high amount, it may compensate for the partial absorbance of CaCarbonate and pickiness of some does. And, my girls are not producing anywhere near 2 gallons/milk per day this late in lactation (or even in early lactation, lol). So, considering they do et some from pasture, grain, and hay, they're probably getting an adequate amount. Now if only they'd eat it more readily. I've experimented with just putting the oil on there - they still don't like it. I'm wondering if they'd like cocosoya. Expensive, but you don't have to use a TON.

LoneStrChic23 · #33 10/03/12, 02:57 PM

Yea, if I wasn't feeding ANY alfalfa, I'd worry about it, but I simply reduced my alfalfa from free choice to much smaller rationed amounts so Tums isn't their only source of Calcium, so I'm not worrying.... At least they'll eat Tums, I can't get them to comsume the calcium carbonate no matter what I try.... They'll bury their nose down into the feed & throw it all over the place

What is cocosoya?

LoneStrChic23 · #34 10/05/12, 06:10 PM

Haha- I thought cocosoya was some form of calcium supplement I've never heard of.

Mine like coconut oil..... I started using it when I couldn't afford BOSS or rice bran anymore.

But they won't eat the grain with oil if I put the calcium carbonate in it

It's annoying because in the beginning Bleuberry ate it, but once she decided she didn't like it, she'd rather toss her grain out of tge bucket than eat it with the CC...

Wish they made a bigger Tums! My girls scarf those down like candy, but the highest I could find was 1000mg per tablet, and to cut out all alfalfa, and supply enough calcium that way would cost a fortune, so I might as well feed alfalfa....

I've seen various cattle calcium gels, though I've never priced them or paid much attention..... I'm betting supplementing calcium that way wouldn't be anymore cost effective than alfalfa..

PrettyPaisley · #35 10/17/12, 11:02 PM

What is the calcium carbonate for? I missed that somewhere!

CaliannG · #36 10/17/12, 11:23 PM

Calcium carbonate is to keep the does from getting hypocalcemia, or severe calcium deficiency, which can kill them. (It is also called "milk fever".)

When does are pregnant, they pull a lot of calcium out of their bodies so the babies can develop bones. When does are milking, they put a lot of calcium into their milk for the same reason (Goat milk is higher in calcium than cow milk). If they don;t get enough calcium in their diet to replace what they are putting out, the can get sick and die.

If you hear of a doe dropping dead for no apparent reason shortly after kidding, it is very likely it is from a lack of calcium.

We feed alfalfa because it is high in calcium. But frankly for many folks, it is expensive, or it isn't enough, so we also supplement with calcium carbonate.

It is one of the few cases where more is....more. Does can die of lack of calcium, but I have never heard of a doe overdosing on calcium.

PrettyPaisley · #37 10/18/12, 07:26 PM

Thank you for sharing that. Somehow I missed that whole thing. I thought I had the details covered; loose minerals, baking soda, cooper bolus, wormers, oak leaves for worms and somehow I missed the entire calcium carobonate issue!

LoneStrChic23 · #38 10/18/12, 08:24 PM

You don't have to feed calcium carbonate. Many are using it so they don't have to feed alfalfa... Some are using a bit, and reducing the amount of alfalfa fed.... Some just feed alfalfa and don't mess with the calcium carbonate.

gabbyraja · #39 10/18/12, 09:26 PM

Wow. After reading this thread I feel extremely fortunate to have found 3rd cutting alfalfa for $8 per 70 lb bale. I loaded up on about twice what I thought I'd need just in case I ended up finding some animal at a great price this winter.

Lucky thing, since I ended up with 3 goats I hadn't planned on. I was worried it might be "too rich" for the goats, but it sounds like it might be perfect. Yay! Thank you, ladies.