Horny or Not?

Shygal · #41 09/14/12, 09:01 PM

Im torn on the issue. I wish every goat was born without horns

I don't like the idea of burning their skull or putting caustic paste on their skull, but I would prefer they didn't have horns. My wethers have horns and every so often they play Rocky Mountain Sheep Head Ramming games , running and clanging their heads together at the last moment. They would probably do that without horns too and knock each other silly.

I look at goats for sale and a lot of good ones are horned and I think too bad. Im torn like I said.

Donna1982 · #42 09/14/12, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnhouse

Adorable! Recently I saw tape that has designs on it or camouflage.
You can now design your own goat.

When I was putting her "Balls of shame" on we talked about different colored duct tape. Never got around to getting her some. She's a good girl now after having Tubby... I mean Booboo.

Barnhouse · #43 09/14/12, 09:05 PM

I think different colored tennis balls would be awesome.
Maybe some that glo in the dark?

:

wintrrwolf · #44 09/14/12, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnhouse

Do you find (and this question is open to all) that males are more apt to use their horns than females?

Interesting question
My horned males used their horns on each other often in play and it did give them an advantage over my non horned bucks, which I have to add have seemed happier and healthier since the 2 horned males are gone.
Of the female horned goats I had the queen was my horned saanen I had seen her flip other goats and catch other goats legs between her horns(sweat broken legs) if they weren't quick enough to get away, she was also one that knew how to get her head through the fencing one way, since she has passed away, her daughter (natural polled) is the new queen and she knows how to head butt and get her way but at least I don't have to worry about the other things.
So in answer yes and no they use them in different ways for different reasons.

Barnhouse · #45 09/14/12, 09:32 PM

Quote:

CaliannG
For everything else, though, it is completely personal preference. If you are religious, ask God for guidance.

Ehhh.......I'm not real keen on critiquing God's choices, but I get what you mean.
However, if I was going to do that, I start with a several things on my own body that I'd like to disbud.

CaliannG · #46 09/14/12, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnhouse

However, if I was going to do that, I start with a several things on my own body that I'd like to disbud.

~sighs sadly~ If only mosquitoes sucked fat.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyllie63

There are many times we have to sit on our hands when posting on this board because we just don't all do things the same way. I for one could never butcher an animal. I think the pain they feel, physical and emotional would just be too much for me to handle. They trust me to take care of them and I could never purposely betray that trust. Other's can do it with no problem and I'm not one to judge that choice. My cousin (who disbuds my goats) had a goat roast a couple of weeks ago...I stayed home.

See, I think our reasoning is the same, but our methods are different.

I kill and butcher my own meat *because* I love them. No one else is going to go to the lengths and have the care to ensure their ending is as pain-free and fear-free as I will. No one else will be as gentle with them at the end, nor as thankful to them for what they provide, as I will.

They trust me to be responsible for them...and to me, that means to the very end. I have the responsibility to make both their lives, and their deaths, good ones, and I take that responsibility very seriously.

I could never send one of my animals to the slaughterhouse to deal with the stress, the fear, and the pain that awaits them there...and what is more, I don't want to support an industry that thinks it is okay for animals to have to deal with stress, fear, and pain so that I can sit down to a steak dinner at Outback.

So, I kill my animals with gentleness, love and kindness, and I am grateful that, in death, they feed and care for me as I did for them in life.

Clovers_Clan · #47 09/14/12, 09:57 PM

I have horned, dis-budded and polled goats - meat goats and dairy goats. I don't loose much sleep over it.

When my meat herd is in the large pasture, the horns are never a problem. It only seems to be a problem when they are in confined spaces. Be it reaching through the fence and getting stuck or fighting over the prime feeder space.

I intend to keep my dairy herd hornless, since they will be confined more frequently, and I will be handling them more. My guess is this is why the standard for dairies is hornless. Disbudding is a task I would prefer to leave to my vet. Since it is painful and if done improperly can be life threatening. I've also seen far too many botched jobs that leave the horns irreparably, and often, hazardously deformed. I consider it a procedure to be done well or not at all.

Barnhouse · #48 09/14/12, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovers_Clan

Disbudding is a task I would prefer to leave to my vet. Since it is painful and if done improperly can be life threatening. I've also seen far too many botched jobs that leave the horns irreparably, and often, hazardously deformed. I consider it a procedure to be done well or not at all.

I totally agree with that.

LoneStrChic23 · #49 09/15/12, 12:27 AM

If you choose to disbud, doing it PROPERLY is essential. I'm told I take too long & baby mine too much.

I shave heads so I get the iron placed properly & don't have to burn through hair.... I disbud early so it's a quicker, easier job.

I give banamine before I get started. I use a GOOD iron & let it fully heat. I burn one side, then immediately ice pack it before moving on to the next side. My kids eat a bottle right after, then go on as if nothing happened. My twins from 2 years ago went right to head butting afterwards which shocked me....

Also would like to caution that not every vet is good at disbudding..... Had mine do one for me.... Iron wasnt hot enough & he really PRESSED it into their head..... Not a good experience at all....

Though *I* don't have scurs and have never had a problem after disbudding I have seen folks burn too long & have a dead kid later.... I have seen burns that literally went INTO the skull..... I've seen seizures, I've seen kids die from their airway accidently being cut off while being restrained....

Lots CAN go wrong, you need to know what you are doing & use caution....

I may baby mine, and do things that many folks say is unessesary, but I do a good job & I can sleep at night knowing I did my best to make it as easy as possible on them.... This year, I'm doing one even better.... Have a friend who is going to show me how to do a local & numb the entire area for me first so I'm excited to try it

Numbing shots, banamine & ice packs.... Dunno what else I could add to the routine.

CaliannG · #50 09/15/12, 12:49 AM

Crystal, if, for some strange reason, I *have* to have a kid disbudded, I am driving up there to have you do it.

SilverFlame819 · #51 09/15/12, 01:58 AM

Yes, disbudded.

YES, I LOVE Halloween!!!!!

And... don't have children or know enough about vaccinating them to have an opinion.

bluefish · #52 09/15/12, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Servant

Thermo, if you grab that beard & hang on YOU are in control. Grabbing horns is perceived as challenge. Not to suggest your response was unwarranted.

We try not to use horns as handles even on the does.

Oh, I know! I never, ever even touch horns in the normal course of things. This was an emergency grab what I could type situation. I would not want to be dependent being able to hold to a beard though. They are also harder to grab when the goat is attacking you as the head is usually tilted. Personally, if this goat had been mine, he'd have been shot, horned or not, the first time he showed any aggression. But the owner thought differently.

Pony · #53 09/15/12, 09:49 AM

It's a matter of personal preference.

I prefer to not have horns on my goats.

We do have a nigie wether with horns, and he gets them stuck in the fence occasionally, but he's so short I don't fear for my eyesight.

Barnhouse · #54 09/15/12, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverFlame819

Yes, disbudded.

YES, I LOVE Halloween!!!!!

And... don't have children or know enough about vaccinating them to have an opinion.

So...what's your view on the upcoming election?

Quote:

Pony
We do have a nigie wether with horns, and he gets them stuck in the fence occasionally, but he's so short I don't fear for my eyesight.

What about your ankles?

SilverFlame819 · #55 09/15/12, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnhouse

So...what's your view on the upcoming election?

There are no good choices. (Are there ever?) But voting for someone who seems to think that women are second-class citizens seems counter-productive, even if the other option is someone who is possibly not a US citizen.

Even though I don't have kids (yet?), I'm also anti circumcision. *lol*

Everyone just likes to fight about crazy things. I say - we all believe different things and that's what makes things interesting, so let's just embrace that we're all not the same (wouldn't that be a bit boring?) and have a good time!

Cannon_Farms · #56 09/15/12, 05:35 PM

Knowing kids are usually more upset over being in the box and having their head shaved than the actual deed itself I dont consider it to be that traumatic. I have a video of the correct way its supposed to be done, this burning the poor kid several times is not necessary. The man I have do mine is very quick with it even stopping to let me get a shot in the video it was less than 45 seconds if I remember correctly. Out of hundreds hes done and dozens of mine only one kid was lost as a results of being disbuded and its not conclusive that she died from that.
Now, I assist in procedures done with some pretty large herds here and my go on horns as for wild goats they are great for two things, handles and if one gets out of hand (such as a rank buck) I can swat them on the horns with whatevers handy and Im sure it hurts some, they stand back and contemplate things for a moment then go on their way.
For goats such as my dairy goats that I am in daily contact with I have to say I am fan of the disbudding. When I had boers they where not aggressive even my buck but bruises from feeding where commonly leaving me look like I had camo tattooed on me. I also get bruised up when I work the wilder goats but its worth it for the handle advantage.
So Im a fan of what ever is practical for that farm. I do think its kinda sad for the kids for those few seconds but I think its even sadder to have seen 8 of my neighbors goats killed or died with their horns stuck in the fence.

Btw, when I had my adult doe dehorned she didnt act like for a moment after she was in pain, she woke up and started looking for something to eat before she even was able to stand.

Heritagefarm · #57 09/15/12, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

Oh man, do ya really wanna open this can of worms again? It's a highly debated topic here on HT, both sides feeling strongly about their opinions.

On the contrary. I feel strongly about not having any opinion.

Clovers_Clan · #58 09/15/12, 06:15 PM

When I raise my horned babies, I mess with their horns a lot, just like every other inch of their bodies. I pick up feet so regularly, I never have to put them on a stand and only occasionally need help for trimming feet. Just like a horse that's used to the farrier, if you get them used to it, trims are a piece of cake. Its the same way with the horns, they get used to being handled. If they are used to being restrained by the horns when you are just giving them a back scratch or a treat, when you have to use it for something unpleasant they are easy to catch and restrain. Also, its best to hold firmly down at the base. My goats get used to me holding one horn with one hand and checking the eye lid with the other. Its a lot easier than checking a hornless goat with a collar, all the while turning their head to avoid you.

One exception to this, any intact buck over 5 or so months, messing with their horns triggers a sparring response. I never touch my bucks on the bridge of the nose or around the horns, just chin rubs and ear scratches. Its vital to start training them to lead by a collar early.

CaliannG · #59 09/15/12, 06:37 PM

Today, I was repairing a screen on my patio table, and my neighbor stopped by to play with the babies. So we sat on the steps in the shade, drinking sweet tea, when Princess decided to come over, get on the steps with us, and basically stand over my lap (she knows she is too big to be IN my lap anymore), with her head tucked in under my arm. I put the other arm over her shoulders and was scratching her cheek, resting my chin on one horn.

My neighbor, who has listened to me joke about all of the myths and superstitions that go with goats, commented, "Yes, I see you have those stand-offish, aloof, mean Alpines with their horrifying, dangerous horns."

I added, "That hate to be cuddled. Don't forget that they hate to be hugged and cuddled."

At that moment, my mare (Myth: high strung, spooky, Thoroughbred) came over for her share of cuddles and stuck her head under my neighbor's arm in an obvious plea for ear scratches. Neighbor obliges and my mare started falling asleep. "Better watch out, she's going to freak out and act crazy any second now."

"Uh-huh. I'll bet," says my neighbor, just as one of the neighborhood cats comes over, weaving between horse hooves to get to the steps. Princess decides she has had enough and it is someone else's turn, so she gently disengages herself, ducks under the mare, and goes to join the others.

While neighbor and I are watching the goats, my mare DOES do a freaky...

She reaches around behind us to the steps, grabs my neighbors pack of cigarettes and *eats it*, pack and all!

luvzmybabz · #60 09/15/12, 11:29 PM

Most of my goats are disbudded but the first year doing it ourselves we did not do such a great job. Therefore just one of my many battle wounds from today took a shortened horn, not really a scur just a stumted horn about 3 inches long on a full grown goat, to the checkbone. We also have a buck that we purchased already disbudded that they did a horrible job on. We even went back as soon as we saw growth but it was too late. Another battle wound from today trying to remove the last inch of his scur from where it was turning into head. Tree trimmer almost broke then used some linewine wire cuter deals to notch it and then went to sawing as we had to do something 2 full grown people holding him and my hubby is a STOUT dude, and he was in a sheep stand so he would not buck with a head stall that has a chain around back of head, he still jerked enough to knock the saw into my hand. Between that and getting kicked from trimming hoofs. And biten trying to keep the copper done my body has had a long day.

However
Kasi 1 scur
+39 copper boluses to 15 goats
+21 goats hoofs trimmed
= 1 really tired goat owner

However back to OP I have had some issues with horns and prefer to not have them on any on my goats. I have gotten hurt, my kids standing 5 feet from me have gotten hurt, I have had previous goats with full horns get caught in my cattle panels too many times to count before they went their own way. And if you can not get them out ( goats will struggle againist you when they are caught) then the bolt cutters are taken to a 25 dollar panel.