Dang it...Kenobi's lump was diagnosed as CL

Cannon_Farms · #21 08/07/12, 08:19 PM

A couple years ago I consulted on a boer goat herd purchase and though it was from a breeder i knew and had personally bought from before one of the goats came up with a lump that I had recommended the buyer buy.
The lump was on the neck but not in an ideal spot, I geared up and drew out some of the pus it was clumpy looking and about a perfect match for what CL looked like from every photo I had came across in my research. I sent the culture off and it seems like it took only a couple weeks but it came back to be just a staph infection. I would have put money on it being CL. We tested the other goats via blood including him again and they where all negative.

Now if a new way of testing or if the bacteria has a certain description your vet would like to share his information on we would all be glad to listen and learn but I think he is as certain as I was.

Ravenlost · #22 08/07/12, 08:44 PM

PaulNKS...you're right. I posted when I was very upset and I do regret it now. I just get so frustrated sometimes!

Hubby called from work to let me know he'd be working late. I asked him how the vet diagnosed CL and he said just from looking at the pus...said it looked exactly like what I'd described when he called me yesterday to tell me it had ruptured. However, he did say that the vet told him it might NOT be CL but he was going to treat it as a worse case scenerio as he didn't want to wait for a culture to come back.

Sorry, PaulNKS, but I've got to say that bugs me too. Why didn't hubby tell me all this when I was asking him what the vet said when they got home today? He couldn't even remember what the vet had called it. I had to call them and ask.

Mostly though, I blame all this on myself. I should have done what my intuition was telling me. From now on I will...hang the consequences.

Ranger · #23 08/07/12, 08:52 PM

Ravenlost, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Don't lose heart. Only the test can tell you for sure what's going on, and then you can do what you must to make things better.

I wish that some people would stop trying to make others feel badly by "berating" them here where their friends are. You stick to your guns. You have a perfect right to be angry and upset, and absolutely NO reason to apologize to anyone! ((((hugs))))

Ford Zoo · #24 08/07/12, 09:58 PM

Google the July 2012 issue of Goat Rancher MAgazine. A vet has an article about managing CL abcesses and he suggests irrigating with iodine. Good luck and try to keep calm until you have a definitive culture result!

Ravenlost · #25 08/07/12, 10:13 PM

Thanks Ranger. Ford Zoo I'll see if I can find that. I've already read somewhere else about irrigating with iodine. Sure wish I had some!

where I want to · #26 08/07/12, 10:18 PM

When I had my goat cultured, the vet did an inhouse culture. From that he could tell it was some kind of Coryne but to find out it was coryne psuedotuburculosis (CL), he had to send it to Davis to get an expert identification. Coryne grows slowly and needs a minimum of two days to get anything even growing on a plate.
Second, coryne can infect people but it very hard to get. The only cases I could ever find were people who cut themselves while butchering a CL infected carcass. Despite what you may hear, it's very difficult to get.
On a nurses advice about disinfecting, I sprayed the shed and small paddock where the doe lived with amonia and water solution- I was told that is the best for this infection.
When I had to flush out the abscesses on that doe, I used what the vet recommended which was a betadine and water solution mixed so it looks like tea. Coryne pus is thick and it needs a lot of flushing to get it out of the cracks and crevasses. I took her to a location on the outside edge of my property where I knew the others would not go. I collected the paper towels I used to catch the flushings and burned them.
It is certainly not as easily spread as some people think. Mostly those herds who have lots of infected goats don't bother to flush abscesses so the pus is spread everywhere. And even there ususally not every goat comes down with it.
And this infromation is from my personal experience. I hope that you find only good news about this.

RedSonja · #27 08/07/12, 10:23 PM

If you decide to send off blood to WADDL, know that CL titers are not the same numbers as CAE titers. When one of my does got an abscess last summer, I didn't get any exudate for testing because it burst almost as soon as it showed up. I sent blood to WADDL for testing and luckily my DH was beside me when I opened the envelope with the results. I saw "Positive titer 1/64" and all the rest was a blur. DH read me the rest, "Possible exposure, recommend re-test in 4 weeks." So the doe got to stay in QT another month, blood was sent again, and the same titer was returned. This time the letter said, "No change, assume negative. Re-test annually." (Note to self, it's been more than a year, time to re-test). So don't freak out if the first one comes back something like that, stay calm and read the whole thing.

FWIW 1/64 seems to be the titer for goats that have been vaccinated for CL. I have no idea of this doe's history other than she probably got Case-bac sometime in her past.

-Sonja

where I want to · #28 08/07/12, 10:30 PM

BTW the fact that you said the abscess would get larger and smaller makes me suspect it may not be CL. From my experience, CL abscesses just grow steadily without ever getting smaller. They are very firm.
So keep good thoughts...............

The Tin Mom · #29 08/07/12, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlost

Thanks Ranger. Ford Zoo I'll see if I can find that. I've already read somewhere else about irrigating with iodine. Sure wish I had some!

Iodine is wonderful for lots of stuff. Your local feed/ farm supply store should have it on hand. If not, I know Valley Vet or one of the goat supply "stores" sells it online for a reasonable price. Spray iodine is heaven on earth!

mrs.H · #30 08/08/12, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlost

PaulNKS...you're right. I posted when I was very upset and I do regret it now. I just get so frustrated sometimes!

Hubby called from work to let me know he'd be working late. I asked him how the vet diagnosed CL and he said just from looking at the pus...said it looked exactly like what I'd described when he called me yesterday to tell me it had ruptured. However, he did say that the vet told him it might NOT be CL but he was going to treat it as a worse case scenerio as he didn't want to wait for a culture to come back.

Sorry, PaulNKS, but I've got to say that bugs me too. Why didn't hubby tell me all this when I was asking him what the vet said when they got home today? He couldn't even remember what the vet had called it. I had to call them and ask.

Mostly though, I blame all this on myself. I should have done what my intuition was telling me. From now on I will...hang the consequences.

Probably because you were already upset and he went into you-alls standard "discussion mode". The consequences in this case are you are upset, you spoke poorly of him on this board, he is defensive, you still do not know if your goat even has CL. So you did over-react, because you became became angry with the person who was doing the best he could, with out even confirming the facts.

Every one that becomes angry in a family "discussion" needs to apologize!

"I didn't do any wrong, the other person needs to apologize!" only leads to broken hearts, broken relation ships and divorce court.
You don't take blame for something you didn't do, you say your sorry for being angry, upset, and accusing.

One of my goat developed an abscess at an cd&t injection site. Did your goat get a shot in the area?

Backfourty,MI. · #31 08/08/12, 08:24 AM

I've never had 1st hand experience with CL & only know what I've learned here & reading on the internet. It doesn't sound like CL to me from the way you describe it so take a good deep breath.
Have blood drawn from all 3 goats & sent in for testing. From what I've read you may want to test twice since CL can cause a false positive or false negative when testing with blood.

It could very well be that she got a picker or sliver or bug bite that caused the abcess & the pus was no more than infection from the irritant.

Ravenlost · #32 08/08/12, 02:13 PM

Well, we irrigated it good this morning and got more pus out. It just looks like normal pus to me. We irrigated with soapy water, rinsed it out good and then I filled the abcess with tea tree oil in a syringe...only antiseptic I have here.

If I'm able to make it into town the next day or so I will get some iodine.

**mygoat** · #33 08/08/12, 02:54 PM

Culture results should take about a week - depends on when during the week you send it in, and how busy the lab is. MANY state labs out there that will take samples. DCPAH at MSU here in MI is one - no accession fee.

Samples are set up, incubated over night, and then go to the bench workers for ID. Depending on the bacterium and work load, it may take a few days to ID. I advise putting on the submital form that you are concerned about Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis.

PrettyPaisley · #34 08/08/12, 04:16 PM

Can you find a good quality Frankincense? Tea tree oil is sooooo very mild-it sounds like you need something stronger. I'd even go with oregano but I would *not* do it topically. It's far too strong.

Ravenlost · #35 08/08/12, 07:29 PM

In this little town I doubt I could find any Frankincense...good or bad quality! I'll just have to continue with the tea tree oil until I can get some iodine.

Should we use Blu Kote on this? I'm thinking we need to keep it open and draining and the Blu Kote might make that difficult.

Backfourty,MI. · #36 08/08/12, 07:49 PM

If you have a drugstore or even local grocery store Betadine is like Iodine & will work.
The vet here also carries a Screw worm spray that hay an antibiotic in it, I wonder if your vet has any & would want you to use that to keep the flies away from it & also help in healing up?

Minelson · #37 08/08/12, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlost

In this little town I doubt I could find any Frankincense...good or bad quality! I'll just have to continue with the tea tree oil until I can get some iodine.

Should we use Blu Kote on this? I'm thinking we need to keep it open and draining and the Blu Kote might make that difficult.

Yes..keep it open and draining. Until you get iodine I would just use a little soap and water and rinse really really well.
Don't use peroxide.

Ravenlost · #38 08/08/12, 09:22 PM

No, I never use peroxide on wounds. I'm washing with soap and water, rinsing well and then injecting with tea tree oil. We have a fly ointment for the dogs' ears that we are using on Kenobi's neck to keep flies away. I haven't seen one on her yet...actually haven't even seen any near her at all. I think it is to hot and dry here to have flies!

We have a Walgreens and a Wal Mart. I'll add Betadine to my list. Vet gave us a shot of penicillin to give her tomorrow. I asked hubby if he knew how to give the shot and he said, "Yeah, you just stick it in".

SIGH...

Minelson · #39 08/08/12, 09:27 PM

There is usually a loose part of skin that is easy to grab right behind the armpit. If you are giving more than 5 cc's you may want to re-direct the needle for 1/2 of the dose so it's all not going in the same spot. Hang in there Ravenlost! (((hugs)))

where I want to · #40 08/08/12, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlost

I asked hubby if he knew how to give the shot and he said, "Yeah, you just stick it in".

SIGH...

Like many things inlife- it's all in the details..................