Parasites-I don't get it !
 

I've got two more does who have pale eyelids. They kidded a couple mints ago, were dosed with Cydectin for cattle, coppe bolused and turned loose on 7 acres of fresh cut pasture. Free choice Right Now Oynx minerals, baking soda, fresh water. What am I doing wrong ??? :(

Did you re dose the cydectin 10 days later? Some goats just have pale eyelids no matter what you do.

Maybe tapeworms? I don't know if those cause anemia though...

Did you have the dosage right? Administered orally? Retested after treating?

I followed the dosage I got here. Did it orally. I check eyelids pretty frequently. Didn't take a sample in to vet. They will just give me Cyectin for goats-why don't "we" (all us folks here) ;) use Cydecin for goats ?

Go to the feed store. Buy Cydectin Pour On for Cattle.

I don't think the vet's Cydectin is the right stuff, right strength, etc. I don't think you got a complete kill, and they need another round.

Most of us buy the stronger strength (link below.)

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.h...ae5&item=22940

I did the pour on for cattle. The vet said that wasn't strong enough !

There isn't a "Cydectin for goats."

Actually, I will mention here that my vet says that worms in this area of Missouri are getting immune to Cydectin. He uses it at double the rate.

You may also think about trying a "cocktail" of Cydectin and another dewomer such as Ivomec.

BUT............. do a fecal test first, please. :) AND after.

Also, neither dewormer is approved for use in goats, but we use them "off label." Just being sure you know this. :)

I did find this, which is about the injectable form of Cydectin for cattle. The article is dated 2009. Still, note that it says at the bottom of the page that this is not technically approved for goat use.

Recommendation for Cydectin Treatment in Goats

Here is the source article that withdraws the recommendation mentioned in the link above. It also says they couldn't find a farm to test on that had worms that were susceptible to Cydectin.
American Consortium for Small Ruminant Parasite Control

Withdrawal time for meat is 23 days for using the oral form, and the article says NOT to use the pour-on orally.

Yes, goat parasite treatment is confusing. You have to do what works for YOUR goats, and without fecal testing before AND after treatment, you don't know what works.

we have had cydectin injectable work wonders used as an injection to the point my vet didn't like me doing it, to him now recommending it. I use pyrentel for the soft kill. These new goats where all pale, the Nubian had "bottle jaw" and now 30 days from even giving a half a dose of injectable she was a dark pink yesterday.

Good to know. I won't inject them just yet but I would love to know if this is the cydectin cattle pour on kind.

I just went to check all lids and what I don't understand is why some are bright pink and others are so pale. There is no consistency; some that are pale are pregnant, some that are bright are pregnant. Then others that have kidded are pale and others that have kidded are bright. I'm at a total loss here. My goat partner (who refuses all chemical wormers) has lost 2 recently, one with bottle jaw-and she is beside herself.

Someone has to be working on breeding a stronger goat, right? Or should I just scrap the pasture idea and start planting lots and lots of trees? Of course it would be years before I could turn this place into browse. :(

I have a question. Does the cydectin injectable work as well as giving the pour on orally? That stuff is horrible.

Read the second article I posted. It addresses that question. :)

The key to know what is going on in your herd is FECAL TESTING!

You won't know the answer without doing that. Worms in other herds are not the same as worms in your herd.

But I didn't want to actually work this morning, I wanted you to tell me :)

WRONG person to ask, as I'm a former teacher at the junior high and high school levels. :)

Awhile back I went to a clinic the Extension Service held covering parasites and parasite control, but with the focus on barberpole worms.

They eyelid color is used for checking for worms such as the barberpole worm that causes anemia. It doesn't work for all types of worms because from my understanding, not all types of worms cause anemia.

The first thing you need is a fecal exam. According to the research vet that was at the clinic, he said the most current recommendations are to NEVER deworm unless you KNOW you have a problem and then to only deworm the affected goats.

The ideal situation is to deworm your goats. Then (I think it's 2 weeks you wait) move them to a new pasture. That time period gives them the time to shed the worms and the exposure will kill them. Then they are moved to a new pasture for awhile before moving them back.

They did say that for 30 years goats have been under-dosed which has led to a lot of parasites becoming resistant. Combine that with the fact that it's been a number of years since we've had a new class of dewormer introduced to the market. So, they told us that you always dose 2x to 3x the dosage depending on the dewormer.

Their main emphasis was on NOT deworming unless you KNOW you have a problem and then deworming ONLY the animals with a problem. The only way to know is through a fecal count. Anyone that owns several goats is better off buying an inexpensive microscope and doing their own fecal counts. It's very easy to do.

By the way, there is no Cydectin for goats and as far as I know, all Cydectin pour-on is the same strength. I could be mistaken. I seldom have to worry about deworming, but when I do, I use only Cydectin. My biggest problem is mites, not worms. When I do treat, the ones showing the worst symptoms are drenched and the ones that show mild to no symptoms (mites) are poured.

If I were you, I would get fecal counts and find out for sure what's going on with your goats.

You must get fecal counts done. Preferable McMaster's, when you call ask wether they do float testing or McMaster's (this actually counts). Any Vet should be able to send samples away for you if it isn't done in office. If you call your Vet and he says to just worm with "xyz" with no testing, run, and find another Vet.

You cant inject the pour on, but they do make the injectable. Little Tots Estates started using it in his herd first, several others have joined including myself. The only other thing used is Levomiocil (sp?) in his herd as soon as the doe kids.
I dont think any of us can stress enough on the importance of fecal testing and not just one test I like to catch the first poo of the morning because its been in there longer and should have more eggs.

Yes, that's pretty obvious :) If I hadn't already known that I would've guessed it - either that or a long time nurse. You have the no-nonsense attitude that dealing with large numbers of people over time who tend not to use their brains imparts.

Btw I probably do as much research as you do on various things - we seem to be fairly similar in a lot of ways - was just asking for a gimmie in that case.

I did go back and read the link. Sounds like they really don't know. I would suppose the farms with over 100 goats couldn't find worms susceptible to cydectin because they've used it heavily - since it's the most recent in vogue goat wormer - and on a scheduled rather than individual basis.

I think you're right.... they really don't know. We're out here in the goaty trenches, winging it. :)

Cliff, you made me chuckle this morning. Thank you.

Due to pale eyelids, I took fecal sample from 2 does to the local vet on 7-3. Both sample were positive for barberpole worms. I was given cydectin injectible and instructed to give 1CC orally per 25 pounds. I was also told I could redose after 30 days if it looked like I needed to.
Eyelids still seem pale and one of the does is looking skinny, but she is nursing 2 kids almost 2 months old.

SPIKE

I also wanted to add, the vet said there was no withdrawal time as far as drinking the milk goes.
Have I been worming myself!? LOL

SPIKE

It has not been tested for goats, so we can not definitely answer that. :)
There is no withdrawal for use in dairy cattle.

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/cyde.../liv/cp/16374/

I discard for three days, but that is me.

What the extension agent told me was to double the dose with any Ivermectin or Cydectin product. In that clinic I mentioned earlier, the pale eyelids is (if I understood correctly) only a symptom of barberpole worms and not other parasites.

I've used Cydectin on the cattle for a long time. That was my only reason for using it on the goats and I get better results from it even just as a pour-on and not a drench.

As far as research, there has been a lot more research than people on these forums think. There are some extension (ag) universities that have done a lot of research.

The current recommendations (for most parasites) are to only treat infected animals.

If you are dealing with barberpole worms and have more than one pasture, they recommend that you dose the goats and wait either 1 or 2 weeks (I can't remember which without looking at my paperwork). The time lapse is to let them sluff the eggs which will die from exposure. After the 1 (or 2) weeks, move them to a new pasture.

One thing to keep in mind. Get the FAMACHA (sp?) chart to compare the eyelids. Barberpole worms are serious. A healthy goat can get infected and be dead in 12 days. If you suspect it, you can do your fecal count, and if positive, dose the infected goats. There is also an iron supplement you can give to help the goat recover.

Dealing with barberpole worms is a completely different world than just dealing with other worms and parasites.

In answer to your question about breeding worm resistant goats, we should all be doing that and be culling those goats who have consistantly heavy worm loads in spite of a good deworming program.

^ This....

The only other thing is to look at management. The smaller the lot, resulting in less grass/more dirt, the harder it is to control parasites. This is where the culling would benefit smaller homesteads the most.

Those of us that have enough land to pasture year round don't have the parasite trouble that smaller homesteads have so we tend to not have to cull based on that, but we should. If we all did that, it would help all the goat herds.