I'm lost in "Goat Nutrition"

ozark_jewels · #21 05/29/12, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNKS

My only concern is that if a person gives too much copper to goats, over time, it can kill them by building up in their system. Also, as I stated, do the research. I used to think a lot of copper was necessary because I listened to everyone. But, after doing the research, I found that too much copper is much more dangerous than not enough copper.

***if goats get enough browse and free choice mineral, they will have more than enough copper intake*** DO THE RESEARCH

For someone who loves "research", you seem to make a lot of assumptions in your posts.
You assume you are the only one here who has "done the research".
You assume that if I "had done the research", I would have come to the same conclusions that you have.
You assume that all our first-hand experience with the positive results of copper supplementation is coincedental.
You assume that the results can easily be attributed to something else the goats are recieving.

I assume also.
I assume that my actions have direct consequences.
I assume that when some members of my herd showed unmistakable signs of copper deficiency, that they *were* copper deficient.
I assume that having seen quick but lasting results after copper bolusing, that the copper just *might* be responsible.

I *did* do the research. I made my decisions. I see the results every day. As have many other breeders.

Everyone has an opinion. Unless that opinion has basis in some experience, it can only go so far.....

Of course the whole herd management has everything to do with how they do. A big part of that management, for me, is copper bolusing. Is it a magic pill to fix all ills?? Of course not. Its a tool, just like wormer. Its a tool to make the most of my herd.

Never follow blindly, of course not. No one is advising that. But do not think that others doing the same research and with practical experience to boot, will come to the same conclusion.

Copper toxicity?? I have yet to see it in *any* herd. Of course it can happen. But I have seen hundreds of copper deficient goats to zero goats with copper toxicity.
Copper boluses are proven to be safe. The copper is absorbed slowly and does not add up to toxic levels.
Other forms of copper supplementation *can* be dangerous if care is not taken.
Copper bolusing, its a tool to be used *where needed*.

Elsbet · #22 05/30/12, 12:28 AM

I've always done a mix of sweetfeed and goat/horse feed, for around a 20% protein diet. Love adding black oil sunflower seeds, but as has been said, much too expensive now to add regularly. *sigh.* I do loose minerals, AND we have a mineral block, mostly because it was cheap and the goats seem to enjoy it. I feed horse quality hay- whatever is available and healthy (I always smell it before I buy it. Should smell fresh and dry... almost like tobacco. Never moldy.) When I can afford to, I get the bags of alfalfa cubes to feed as treats, too. I break them up into small wafers for the goats.

If you go with Purina, they have a challenge you can sign up for online, and you get coupons through your email, I think quarterly. I haven't tried their goat feed, but did do their chicken feed. It didn't wow me, but it was a higher quality feed than some of what is around, and the coupons made it worth it.

I've never copper bolused before, but intend to start this year.

Our pasture is small, and so feeding is not supplemental- it's basically everything. I can walk my goats out on lead to graze in the field when I am with them, or in the back yard, but I've got too much going on to keep them out for long periods of grazing outside the fence. So I make sure they always have hay in the rack, at all times. I also have researched plants that grow in our area, and I cut and carry to the goats for snacks- one of my girls LOVES pine needles, for instance. Our buck and Violet both love privet and heavenly bamboo. My Saanen loves regular bamboo. I've only got the three right now, and one of them is currently on another farm, so it isn't a whole lot of work to find treats.

I'm probably not a lot of help. While I've been keeping animals for a long time, in a lot of respects I am WAY behind the ball in the more scientific aspects of keeping them goes. Working on that, and this board is an awesome place to get help- for the most part people here are VERY ready to help figure things out, and they have loads of experience.

Alice In TX/MO · #23 05/30/12, 07:28 AM

20% protein is awfully high, in my opinion.

I've been advised by our vet who is an experienced lactation expert that the toll high protein takes on milk producing animals is considerable. My goats are healthier since lowering the protein level.

**mygoat** · #24 05/30/12, 07:57 AM

My protein level is 16%. It's a 'sweet feed' but with very little molasses in it. Oats, tiny bit of corn, and a dairy pellet (which is a fortified soybean meal pellet - rather like Calf Manna but MUCH less expensive - 27.00/100lbs). The molasses is to keep the vitamin E/selenium supplement to stick to the grain. The mill used to use 2x as much molasses but I asked them to cut it in half - not only was it too much, but it turned the stored bags into bricks that were hard to work with.

It's a LITTLE high in protein for my taste but it works fine. Maybe someday I'll get around to asking the mill to lower the protein simply by taking out some dairy pellet.

I buy goat feed by 500lbs from our mill. Any pre-bagged 'brand name' feed is much too pricy IMO.

We also have a medicated feed. 20g Rumensin per ton. I feed that starting 6wks before kidding to everything. Once the dairies freshen, they get non medicated but the rest of the herd (boers, minis, meat kids) get the medicated grain until the meat kids are weaned. I don't practice cocci prevention with the meat kids because it's impossible for us to catch wild boer kids for 5 days in a row, especially when I'm not home for 5 days in a row. Rumensin lowers the number of cocci shed into the environment by the adults, and thus lowers the number of cocci that the kids can encounter.