What is this buckling doing?

Dreamgoat Annie · #21 05/25/12, 03:13 PM

I bottle raised both of my bucks and they're pussycats. I know that's not true of all bucks and I never take them for granted but these two get hugged and kissed on the nose (except during rut).

Sue

shanzone2001 · #22 05/25/12, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamgoat Annie

I bottle raised both of my bucks and they're pussycats. I know that's not true of all bucks and I never take them for granted but these two get hugged and kissed on the nose (except during rut).

Sue

My buck is a sweet guy as well. Guess it depends on the goat...

Pony · #23 05/25/12, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff

Since he was a bottle baby please be especially alert with him, bottle fed bucks tend to have less respect for people than dam raised.

Huh.

Not been my experience.

My dam-raised buck, while absolutely gorgeous, did NOT respect me at all. It got to the point where I had to take an iron pipe into the pen when I went in there.

My bottle-baby buck, OTOH, is beyond sweet and yes, passive around humans. If I so much as raise my voice around him, he backs up, looks so hurt, and becomes very submissive.

Pony · #24 05/25/12, 06:54 PM

Oh, and while I think Mac is the sweetest thing on four wheels, I realize that he is, after all, a buck. I don't trust him any further than I can throw all 250 pounds of him.

Pony · #25 05/25/12, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmmom

My buck is petted, but I've never petted him on the head as I heard that could be a sign of dominance or aggression. He has only ever been petted on his back and sides. He is so gentle, even when in rut.

Mac must be as weird as his owner, then. I pet his head all the time - even give him noogies - and I pull his ears, smack his sides, and just generally love on him.

He challenged me once - once - and he quickly found his furry fanny on the ground.

Cliff · #26 05/25/12, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Huh.

Not been my experience.

My dam-raised buck, while absolutely gorgeous, did NOT respect me at all. It got to the point where I had to take an iron pipe into the pen when I went in there.

My bottle-baby buck, OTOH, is beyond sweet and yes, passive around humans. If I so much as raise my voice around him, he backs up, looks so hurt, and becomes very submissive.

Based on your experience raising 2 bucks?

Pony · #27 05/25/12, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff

Based on your experience raising 2 bucks?

Yup. And I've never, ever, ever been around any other goats but my own.

I live in a bubble on a hill.

wintrrwolf · #28 05/25/12, 08:30 PM

Oh man I could not not pet my bucks, Shaq loves scritches behind his ears, Monkey likes scritches on his chest, and well BamBam is coming into his own, was petting him down his back and he got a little excited, did the hunchy and bada bing there it was, the look on his little face was priceless. Cracker only likes being petted occasionaly and only if I can catch him. So far I have only ever had a prob with Shaq once and I didn't raise him so don't know how he was before, not afraid of my bucks but am aware as with ANY animal to be careful.
IMHO you need hands on so they are used to being handled makes trimming hooves, grooming, and giving meds a whole lot easier.

Cliff · #29 05/26/12, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Yup. And I've never, ever, ever been around any other goats but my own.

I live in a bubble on a hill.

Thought so

Then just for you I will repeat... bottle fed bucks TEND to be less respectful of humans than dam raised.

And I guess the petting (and naming) is just the difference between looking at them as pets or livestock. I tend to look at mine as livestock but sometimes do have a couple favorites who sometimes get names. Who sometimes get petted. Never bucks though. I enjoy the respectful distance my non pet bucks and I give each other. I can move them anywhere I need to with feed. And we've never had the lack of respect issues that so many have posted about here. No need for squirt guns, putting the buck on the ground and sitting on him, etc. All methods of trying to regain respect after it's been LOST from making them pets... so I will stick to my opinion that it's better if they aren't pets in the first place

Cliff · #30 05/26/12, 07:18 AM

I actually came on here this morning to apologize to you Pony, for my being a smart alec last night. I was tired and sometimes when I'm tired my filters don't work appropriately. So, sorry.

Ford Zoo · #31 05/26/12, 11:25 AM

I just got my first buckling so I can only speak from experience with female goats, steers, horses, and hogs: everything gets "petted" and handled here. I have to know that if an animal gets out, needs to be moved, or gets injured that I can handle it safely and that it will remain calm. Of course I always err on the side of caution, but I feel getting an animal to know you, and getting to know their body language adds to the safety and further well being of that animal. I am not big and strong by any means (and even if I was it wouldn't matter to a large animal), but I have had experiences where these relationships with my animals have basically saved the day.

Cliff · #32 05/26/12, 12:03 PM

When you have the right setup and handling facilities animals do not need to be pets to be handled safely. For instance I have around 60 cows on a couple hundred acres of pasture. Not pets.

I'm not saying animals shouldn't be pets if it makes you happy, or if from a limited setup it makes it easier, but I just don't think it's the greatest idea with male breeding animals. People can justify it all they want but the sheer volume of threads about disrespectful bucks just in the last 3 or 4 months here really speaks for itself.

Horses are in a whole different catagory.

Ford Zoo · #33 05/26/12, 12:23 PM

If I had that many head, that much space, and better facilities, I may do it differently too. But I am a small farm here and this works for me. However, I learned animal handling from an uncle with a much larger dairy cow and hog facility, and he would never own a bull or boar he could not handle on his own. That worked for him and I'm following suit.

As for the horses, mine are in that different category, but they are still large animals and capable of causing injury.

eclipchic · #34 05/26/12, 12:56 PM

We have just our 5 acres here. I need our animals to be handled easily since they have to be led from barn to pasture by hand, not to mention I'm kind of big and clumsy right now and I usually have a 3 year old following my every move. He hasn't done that action again though so it could have been an isolated incident. None the less I've upped my level of caution around him.

Elsbet · #35 05/26/12, 01:28 PM

I much prefer having animals that are used to being petted. I'm not timid around large animals, and can totally understand what you are saying about a large operation, Cliff- makes total sense, not to mention it would be totally impractical for you to make pets out of every animal.
But for us, I won't keep an animal if I can't handle it without special set ups. I am working on training our *still* buckling. (yeah, didn't get around to the job, thinking I'll cross him with the Saanen to keep her in milk.) I want him to be docile on a lead. If I can't get him to that point, he's going in the freezer.
Years back, I raised a lot more animals than I have now. Most of them were totally and completely tame. I bottle raised a jersey calf into a bull- he'd follow me like a puppy. If he got fractious I'd just tap him on the nose, and he'd behave. I could reach out and lead him by the nostrils around our farm without a bit of trouble. I gave him to a boy's farm, and they said they'd never had a bull like that before. Maybe I got lucky, but I don't think luck was hugely involved.
We had a ram who was awesome, too. He was a little more standoffish than the calf, but I could turn my back on him without fear. He was a good boy. I could work in his pasture, he'd come up for a scratch under the jaw, and then move on.
We had another ram, though, that I'd had nothing to do with the raising of. He was brought onto the farm at the request of a friend, who wanted his lines to breed to. And he was gorgeous- very fine wool, huge frame- built like a sofa. Acted like a rabid stallion on Angel dust. I wanted nothing more than to put a bullet between his ears. Going out to feed my sheep during breeding season was terrifying. I was never, never, never so happy as when we sold him. I didn't care how good his lines were, or how fine his fleece. He was a terror. It wasn't at all scary with my other ram, who was a sweetie and did a fine job with the girls.
I'm not a large person, heightwise, and I'm not strong anymore. I have some health issues. Having peaceful, loving animals that let me handle them without stress on them or me is invaluable. Obviously care must be taken with EVERY animal as far as behavioral issues go. My chickens are "pets," but I don't think that makes them anything other than chickens. However darling they are, however easy they are to pet, I know perfectly well that it would take absolutely no provocation for them to peck at an eyeball and blind someone. Or that my roo could get a wild hair and suddenly flog someone, even though he never has before. That's just what they do. But by hand feeding, handling them a lot, it is easy for me to treat them when they are ill, and they are under less stress because they are used to being handled. Same for any animal here. Having the animals trustingly come when called is nice, too. Saves a lot of headache for us.

Pony · #36 05/26/12, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elsbet

Having peaceful, loving animals that let me handle them without stress on them or me is invaluable. Obviously care must be taken with EVERY animal as far as behavioral issues go. My chickens are "pets," but I don't think that makes them anything other than chickens. However darling they are, however easy they are to pet, I know perfectly well that it would take absolutely no provocation for them to peck at an eyeball and blind someone. Or that my roo could get a wild hair and suddenly flog someone, even though he never has before. That's just what they do. But by hand feeding, handling them a lot, it is easy for me to treat them when they are ill, and they are under less stress because they are used to being handled. Same for any animal here. Having the animals trustingly come when called is nice, too. Saves a lot of headache for us.

Totally with you here, but I must say that I would NEVER turn my back on a buck - ANY buck - no matter which buck it is. I absolutely love Mac, but he is still a buck.

Elsbet · #37 05/26/12, 06:56 PM

Wolfie was a special case. When I say "turn my back" on him, I meant I could pay more attention to my work than I had to pay to him. I was always aware of where he was, and his mood- even he could have a bad day. In temperament, he was more like a wether than a ram. In fact, the wether we ran with him was a little more fractious than him. Same with the bull- I knew he COULD turn, and I knew to look after his temper, but overall he was gentle, kind of ox-like. I really liked not having to be constantly worried- if I turn my head for an instant, is he coming after me?
I'm not sure we'll get that far with Mowermouth, but I hope that I can at least get him pettable.

Pony · #38 05/26/12, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elsbet

Wolfie was a special case. When I say "turn my back" on him, I meant I could pay more attention to my work than I had to pay to him. I was always aware of where he was, and his mood- even he could have a bad day. In temperament, he was more like a wether than a ram. In fact, the wether we ran with him was a little more fractious than him. Same with the bull- I knew he COULD turn, and I knew to look after his temper, but overall he was gentle, kind of ox-like. I really liked not having to be constantly worried- if I turn my head for an instant, is he coming after me?
I'm not sure we'll get that far with Mowermouth, but I hope that I can at least get him pettable.

Sometimes (and I find it more often than not) you get blessed with some special animals. I understand what you were saying.

I think that those of us who run smaller herds have the luxury of spending time with them, learning them, and gentling them when we can. If not, we are also able to dispatch them (one way or another). We may treat them like pets, yet they are still livestock.