Talk to me about goats...

BobbyB · #41 05/23/12, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gila_dog

Goats are evil, sneaky, and treacherous. They will eat your fruit trees, shade trees, roses, flowers, garden, etc, etc if they get a chance.

Thats what they are meant to eat. Its all browse to them

The friend that started me with Boers has about 5 herds on different places. he told me when he started using guardian dogs, his life became much easier.

ErinP · #42 05/23/12, 09:59 PM

Quote:

My beefmaster bull was a handfed gentle creature, about as big as a small truck, and he never ever thought of challenging a fence or opening a gate.

Ah. This would explain your perspective.
I've known a few hundred bulls over the years on a dozen ranches and have never known such a thing as a "handfed, gentle" bull. I've known bulls that will eat your lunch as soon as they see you or bulls that will mostly leave you along unless you push them.
And that's it.

Quote:

How far about is the barbed wire spaced? T-posts?

About 10" apart, maybe...? I'd have to go out and measure.
The bottom wire is probably about a foot off the ground and then goes up from there. And no, the perimeter fence is almost entirely wooden posts. We currently have a hot wire between the second and third wires (we needed to cure a cow of her fence-crawling habit. worked like a charm) so it wouldn't take much to move that one and add another.

Quote:

if you do cattle, do you AI?

Nope. And there lies part of our problem, actually.
We don't have enough cattle to warrant the hassle of having our own bull, and figuring out how to get them bred is as much a challenge each year as finding summer grass is.

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have you thought of Dexter cattle?

No, but our Angus cows were quite small, too. I would be quite surprised if they were over 800 pounds, actually. That's part of what breaks my heart to sell them. They're quite gentle, small, easy to handle and have no trouble calving. And they turn out good calves.
In fact, I just sold two of them today. They were right there at the top of the sale, but better than that, I think they were two of the better looking calves that went through the ring. Not that I'm biased or anything. lol

Quote:

Goats are evil, sneaky, and treacherous. They will eat your fruit trees, shade trees, roses, flowers, garden, etc, etc if they get a chance.

*sigh*
I don't have ANY of those things.

Well, OK, we have three trees. Two cedars and a volunteer russian olive...
But DH and I were just talking about the baby trees I'm trying to grow and wondered if something like tomato cages would protect them?

Cliff · #43 05/23/12, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

But DH and I were just talking about the baby trees I'm trying to grow and wondered if something like tomato cages would protect them?

Not a chance

You will have to build a fence around each. I'm glad that's all you have to protect. I'm telling you, they are evil. The second you let down your guard - it might be today or it might be next year - they will automatically know and make a beeline for the one item you want them to stay away from. They are psychic and evil. Did I mention evil?

Hank · #44 05/24/12, 04:57 AM

BobbyB, we are getting does with two seperate working teats on each side. Not split teats or fishtail teats but two complete working teats per side. I have seen these does raise three and or four kids with no problems. Great growth rates for these kids. The buck kids off these does are passing this on to their doe kids as well.
Jack Mauldin has a very good writeup on his website about it.

Hank
www.doublemfarmandchuckwagon.webs.com

Minelson · #45 05/24/12, 08:17 AM

Whatever you don't want them to chew on, they chew on.
Whatever you want them to eat, they don't eat.
They are not evil...they are just a little opposite. So you have to use reverse psychology with them. And put a fence around anything you treasure.
We have tons of small trees around here in our grove. We would love for our goats to go in the grove and clean it up. Since we "want" that...they never go in the grove on their own. We had 3 small, young fruit trees that we put up that wooden snow fence around and of course they demolished that and ate the trees up. Granted the fence was not put up that well in the first place...but still, they have 10 acres to roam here and that is what they zeroed in on.
Frustrating...yes. Evil...no. They are sweet and loving to me!

BobbyB · #46 05/24/12, 11:03 AM

Bucks and rams will go up to saplings like young peach trees, hook a horn around it and strip all the bark off just like a buck deer, killing the trees. Dont ask how I know this.

Cliff · #47 05/24/12, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

Whatever you don't want them to chew on, they chew on.
Whatever you want them to eat, they don't eat.
They are not evil...they are just a little opposite. So you have to use reverse psychology with them. And put a fence around anything you treasure.
We have tons of small trees around here in our grove. We would love for our goats to go in the grove and clean it up. Since we "want" that...they never go in the grove on their own. We had 3 small, young fruit trees that we put up that wooden snow fence around and of course they demolished that and ate the trees up. Granted the fence was not put up that well in the first place...but still, they have 10 acres to roam here and that is what they zeroed in on.
Frustrating...yes. Evil...no. They are sweet and loving to me!

Was a joke

wolffeathers · #48 05/24/12, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

Whatever you don't want them to chew on, they chew on.
Whatever you want them to eat, they don't eat.
They are not evil...they are just a little opposite. So you have to use reverse psychology with them. And put a fence around anything you treasure.
We have tons of small trees around here in our grove. We would love for our goats to go in the grove and clean it up. Since we "want" that...they never go in the grove on their own. We had 3 small, young fruit trees that we put up that wooden snow fence around and of course they demolished that and ate the trees up. Granted the fence was not put up that well in the first place...but still, they have 10 acres to roam here and that is what they zeroed in on.
Frustrating...yes. Evil...no. They are sweet and loving to me!

We have 5 acres for 2 does to roam and this reminded me of what I saw yesterday. This year we were attempting to grow some shady vines on the chicken coop to provide mid-summer shade so we had wrapped the starter vines in chicken wire with 1x2 rabbit wire underneath to support the poultry wire.

I spotted the youngest doe out there rearing up and coming down on the wire with her front feet, pawing at it, and then bouncing off of it again. After about 3 attempts she gave up and went on her way to find something else to get into.

ozark_jewels · #49 05/24/12, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewie

I have also had both. I had been very sad that I could have a milk cow and now, wouldn't get one for anything. I find my goats MUCH easier to handle. nowdays the smell of a cattle trailer gags me, cows stink!!!

Ok.....just have to say. Cows do not stink. Cows in a cattle trailer?? Of course they stink. The back of my truck with a camper shell stinks after hauling several loads of healthy goats too.
Cows out in the pasture smell almost exactly like does out in a pasture....they smell like....animals. They smell good when properly kept.

ozark_jewels · #50 05/24/12, 11:00 PM

When I was dairying several years back I had to fence in about seventy acres by myself(with help from the younger siblings, but with no real fencing tools). This acreage had three strand barbed wire around the pastures and I didn't have the funds or the manpower to take it all down and put up "goat" fence. So I bought GOOD fence chargers, GOOD wire, and plenty of LONG grounding rods. I ran a strand of hot wire between each strand of barbed and I ran it TIGHT. I ran two between the barbed wire strands that were about chest-high on the goats(this is what they will normally try to go through first). And I juiced those wires good. My chargers will leave a mark on your skin for days if you hit that fence. Then I took the lead does in the herd and I shoved them into the fence and taught them that it bit. I did NOT have does getting out. Every once in a while a small kid would slip through without getting hit but usually he got hit when going back through and that was the end of that!
On the areas that had no fence I ran four strands of electric. But I did NOT live near a highway. If I had, I wouldn't trust just electric to always keep anything in.
That is what I'd do in your situation. But don't skimp on your charger, wire or grounding! And do train those goats that its hot.
Build a very sturdy buck pen out of cattle panels or something even stronger. Never gamble that your bucks fear of the fence is stronger than his libido when does are in heat! Even if you plan on running your buck with your does, there will be times when you will want to separate him safely.
Having dealt with bucks and bulls for years.....both are a trial, but bucks are certainly easier to fence and handle. I love my bucks(and bulls), don't get me wrong, but they can be difficult.
Build strong to start with, otherwise you are just training your goats to overcome each obsticle as you build it. How do I know this....??

copperpennykids · #51 05/25/12, 11:18 AM

Interesting discussion...

I just wanted to add that buying quality stock of any breed is important - we have very nice Boer goats that have been bred for excellent structure, strong feet and legs (can't have the goats breaking down when pregnant or when they are 3 or 4 years old!!!), excellent mothering skills, easy kidders, and lots of milk for their babies. There are still show herds out there that have goats that don't even have enough milk for one kid.... Nope, not good breeding stock!

Ours also show very well, as do their kids (fast growing good-looking kids is proof of breeding stock, IMO). Ours are easy keepers.

We also love a Boer X Saanen. Talk about extra length, beautiful udders, lots of milk and really nice kids. Then we breed back to Boer - those 75% Mommas should be the base of any commercial herd, IMO. Of course, we are breeding to some outstanding Saanens - quality in, quality out. And then breed to a high quality Boer buck - keep a few for replacement stock and market the rest for top dollar.

We have also found that Boers (and actually Saanens as well) are not that interested in getting out, just make sure you have a nice big pasture, not a little pen. If you let them out in your fruit orchard, yep, they will eat the trees. If you put them out in the tangled brush they'll eat that too.

If you want to protect your few trees, just put 3 cattle panels around each one in a triangle formation. They won't be able to reach the trees.

We use horse corral panels for our mature bucks. Nearly indestructible and the bucks have never ever gotten out. Cattle panels will hold young bucks and perhaps a yearling - after that you need serious fencing.

Goat Servant · #52 05/25/12, 02:10 PM

Hmm, none of our Boers have ever dropped dead at the drop of a hat. We've never had hoof rot. We do have to trim more often than folks in drier climates. They're wormed 2-3 times a year max.
We started out with excellent stock & are keeping that way.
The only one that ever bothers to get out is the 50% Nub if the gate is forgotten to get latched, and then only when she's being milked. Read "Im tired of waiting Im coming to get my food NOW!"
Other than that they use field fence for rubbing their bodies.

ozark_jewels · #53 05/25/12, 08:21 PM

I also was careful where and from whom I bought my Boers and had nothing but success with them.....without going to a lot of trouble, either. Of course if one doesn't preform the way I wanted, it sure tasted good! Thats the way to keep your breeding stock strong.
I've always kept mature bucks in strong cattle panel fencing.