Talk to me about goats...

chewie · #21 05/22/12, 05:58 PM

I have also had both. I had been very sad that I could have a milk cow and now, wouldn't get one for anything. I find my goats MUCH easier to handle. nowdays the smell of a cattle trailer gags me, cows stink!!!

if you have the market, that's half your battle, and you do. you can sell kids at 3 months, with little work from you, (once the fence is up!). here, we're getting 1.50/lb lw. not bad.

to haul just one or two does, or a few kids, a tahoe or box in the back of the pickup instead of a trailer is nice!

even my mean buck was NOTHING compared to an onery bull. no trade there, no comparison. however, his 'perfume' is also without comparision too! if you do cattle, do you AI? that's another option to the buck issue too. maybe even just for a year or two, you could breed up pretty fast then use a live cover.

I have bred for 2 years, dairy to boer bucks. kids sell right off the farm, I only have 6 this year and could easily sell 6 more. without leaving home, without advertising even. can't get easier than that. I believe some breed meat goats 3x per 2 years too, so more profit.

I think you have a good plan, with a bit of research you could make it work pretty easily.

Creamers · #22 05/22/12, 06:04 PM

have you thought of Dexter cattle? I have had large breed cows, and still have dairy goats. . .and the Dexter cows are easy on grass, dual purpose for milk and browse more like goats - eat weeds, briars, etc that other cattle breeds will not. The bulls are docile and they are small cattle. They are lower maintenance than goats

PaulNKS · #23 05/22/12, 06:44 PM

Since you already have four strand barbed wire, go with it. Just add more strands or add electric between then. I have a neighbor that has 80 acres bordering my west line. He has about 25 Boer goats. They are kept in with nothing but 2 wire electric fence and in the last 4 years, I've never seen one out.

We raise primarily Boer cross goats. About 40 and in the process of going all Boer and increasing the herd.

Two years ago we ran new perimeter fences on two sides of 160 acres. We went with 6 strands barbed wire. In 20 years of using barbed wire, the ONLY injuries we've ever had was two udders got cuts but nothing serious.

I will say that we will be adding another barbed wire at the bottom in a couple low spots where they have gone through.

We also have a few acres that they are kept in during kidding, winter, and other special needs. It has 4 wires. the bottom wire and the third wire are electric and the second and the top wires are barbed. It keeps them in with no problems.

I will say that having cattle and goats only increases the profitability of the farm. BUT.... goats are MUCH MORE labor intensive. Kidding can be more of a problem, hooves need trimming, kids like to try to disappear..... etc.

Like you, we consider the goats as livestock no differently than the cattle. They MUST pay their own way or they won't be here. Same goes for anything we have. If they don't turn a profit, we can't have it. Also, we're very adamant about culling ALL problem goats, no matter if it was a favorite or not... just like with cattle. If one has a bad udder, history of mastitis, only one kid more than once, loses her kids, can't nurse,... etc. Also, if a doe doesn't breed she goes. We won't feed a goat that doesn't produce.

Now, we are looking to replace the other two 1/2mile fence lines. We've been doing the pencil to paper thing. We can put up a cattle panel fence for that entire mile as cheaply as we can put up a 6 strand barbed wire fence. So, that is most likely what we'll do.

So... don't discount electric fencing or cattle panels. Yes, we never disbud or dehorn and we don't have problems with getting heads caught in panels. Usually, it happens when they have run out of grass/browse and try to get to something. But, we have enough room that they don't run out.

By the way, yes you can make a profit if you have enough ground for grazing and don't spend all your profits on feed and buying hay. We never buy hay. The other thing we cull are the goats that are not easy keepers... just like with the cattle.

Good luck.

Sherry in Iowa · #24 05/22/12, 07:34 PM

Hi Erin..I'll take a stab at this!

We have Dexter cattle and Boar buck with nubian and nubian/boar does. We strictly raise meat goats here too. We feel your pain and don't know how much longer we'll have the Dexters..the hay is just too danged high.

Anyway..do you have access to the rolls of wire that I call no-climb fence? They are little oblong squares..like 2" by 4". Unroll it..tack it to the goat side of the barbed wire fence if you can. This will keep the goats in and keep the predators at bay a wee bit.

My best advice about the goat is almost too simple. Buy a good buck..I don't have a registered one right now..but I would put him up against most that are. He cost me a $150.00 and was still a youngster. He is solid, fairly tall and heavy on both ends...and he throws himself on daughters and sons.

Buy a couple of Nubian milk goats....breed them spaced out so that you have your milker year around. I prefer using Nubian does to cross with the Boar buck. They milk great, raise a stout kid on milk alone, we wean at 2-3 months old. No grain..just hay and momma's milk. They top the market and there's no reason your can't either. Feeding them out (with grain) seems like a financial burden and you run more health risk because of it.

Buy healthy stock that hasn't been vaccinated to pieces. We do zero vaccinations here. We had a bloodline that had bad hooves..our current buck has great feet..short hooves..never been trimmed..and has given the offspring the same kind of feet.

Keep it simple..water, hay, and loose minerals. We spot worm here. If someone is being unthrifty or has diareaha (sp)..we treat that animal..not the whole herd.

We feed the does grain AFTER they kid and while they have kids nursing them..never any other time. We also feed the girls that are milked. We NEVER grain the buck.

Our buck runs with the steers when we no longer want him in with the girls. We keep him with them right up to the time they are going to start kidding. He's a great buck and he watches over the girls..protects them.

All Praise to God..we've never had goats out. We hot wire the fence that is close to a guys corn/bean field. But basically they do not want out..they seem to be content where they are.

We raised a lot of goats in hog sheds..the hut type and the pull together type. They now have a big crib that is their "house".

Except for the kidding...when I practically live checking and being present with them..the goats aren't any more trouble than the chickens really. Letting nature take it's course, no rich diets, giving their immune systems the absolute best chance of taking care of them and checking them 2-3 times daily. Basically .. letting them be goats.

While we have a couple of old does left that are definitely "pets"..our goats are livestock and need to do their job. Our buck is NOT a pet. Never been hand fed and never been petted. He has a job to do..and I don't trust his hormones anymore than I trust our bull Sammy's. I never get between him and his does..I never work with or on a doe or kid with him in the same space. I treat Sammy the bull the same way. Neither has ever hurt us..thank you God..and neither has offered to..that's just the way we handle them.

I believe you can make some money with them. I wish you well and totally understand where you are coming from by wanting some livestock that won't put you in the poor house. Our goats have always paid for their own hay and some years they have fed the cows.

Wishing you well~you'll be great!

BobbyB · #25 05/22/12, 09:27 PM

For years and years the standard Texas goat fence was regular 32" hog wire topped with 3-4 strands of barbed wire. Hundreds of thousands of acres were fenced this way to keep in the same number of goats, Spanish goats for meat and Angora for mohair.

These days newer fences are usually 42" field fencing with2 strands on top. This is what my place is fenced with and I have had Boer goats, Boer x Nubian and various Barbado sheep crosses here with only 1 problem.

The most goats we ever had at a tinme was about 20. We had one Spanish x Boer doe that had horns. Actually all of our first does had horns, but this one was bad to put her head thru the fence to eat on the other side and then , instead of turning her head to come back thru as all the others did, she would set back, be hung and start squalling. Finally , I came in one night late from work and she was hung and the kids couldnt get her out because she wouldnt give enough slack for them to get her out and she was still there. I took my limb loppers out and bobbed her horns off just below the wire. She never got hung up again.

I cant speak for Dairy goats as yet, but since I believe goats are pretty much goats ,they probably do the same thing here. Goast will ruin a fence by walking along side it about a foot away and falling over at a 45 degree angle and walking up and down rubbing on it. They will stretch it, sag it and make a nice taught fence look shabby in short order.

That all said, other than worming and trimming feet as needed, I dont buy the fact that meat goats are more work than cattle. About equal is my call. Dairy goats by nature of the work required to keep them healthy and in milk and the milking itself seems to be what would make them labor intensive.

Meat goats can and do get by on just feed and water and shelter. Not to argue with Alice, but I have never seen a buck go thru a fence as I have seen bulls do because they wanted on the other side. Over, yes, thru it, no.

And since you say you have or had cattle, I would assume your pasture is a cattle pasture for grazing. Goats will eat grass, but my experience has been that grass is the last thing they eat, after everything else is gone. They much prefer broad leaf plants. Weeds, bushes, trees, forbs and the like. They do eat rye grass, oats and wheat planted to graze, but native grasses are not favored.

Hope this helps.

Alice In TX/MO · #26 05/22/12, 09:36 PM

Oh, I agree. Over the electric net, not through.

I had a mini-buck who went through electric strand fencing. Seven strands.

BobbyB · #27 05/22/12, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Oh, I agree. Over the electric net, not through.

I had a mini-buck who went through electric strand fencing. Seven strands.

I fenced about a half acre of my front yard with 3 strands of hot wire. One doe stuck her head and neck thru and when the charge hit her she flew thru to the other side. Had to work her thru the gate out back so she could come back around.

Kids ( goat kids ) are like pigs, the will get on their knees and just duck under, coming and going.

Alice In TX/MO · #28 05/22/12, 09:55 PM

The buck was SHAGGY and had horns. (Only goat I ever had with horns.) He used his horns and was insulated by the hair, I think. It was VERY frustrating. He never ever stayed in, but the doe would.

noeskimo · #29 05/22/12, 10:27 PM

Ditto to what they say:I think goats need more care than calves, they seem to find more trouble. I think this lady says it all, and her website is a great resource . Read her "Everything you always wanted to know about goats" Tough but fair.Good Luck with whatever venture you decide on. I was there 5 years ago.
Onion Creek Ranch - Tennessee Meat Goats - TexMaster Meat Goats

ErinP · #30 05/22/12, 10:34 PM

Wow!! I knew this would be the place to ask!

Thanks so much for all the info, guys.

I'll do a lot more replying tomorrow morning, but since this was one of the last posts:

Quote:

And since you say you have or had cattle, I would assume your pasture is a cattle pasture for grazing. Goats will eat grass, but my experience has been that grass is the last thing they eat, after everything else is gone. They much prefer broad leaf plants. Weeds, bushes, trees, forbs and the like. They do eat rye grass, oats and wheat planted to graze, but native grasses are not favored.

Perfect.

Our place is currently broken into several smaller pieces, each cross-fenced with just two strand hot fence (it only has to hold cattle and horses, afterall). But most of it is rather scrubby, high plains, semi-arid, type ground. We have a lot of soapweed and sagebrush intermingled with the grass. And of course horses and cattle preferentially graze around it. Except this time of year that is, when cattle go crazy for soapweed blooms.

Like I said, we need something to balance out the horses, because they're not going anywhere.

Hank · #31 05/23/12, 10:13 AM

ErinP, you can raise fullblood boers that are hardy and as "low maintenance" as any goat. We raise boers with "field fence" and a hotwire knee high.
Never had a goat get out.
The problem with boers is that when they were first brought over to the US many "breeders" saw a chance for quick money and bred, bred, bred with no care about the quality of the breed. So, there are bad blooded boers out there.
More so than most goats, boers are "browsers". They can and will live on grass pasture but will do much better on browse (trees,weeds,briars etc.)
You can now find, thanks to some careful breeders who care about the breed, good boer bloodlines.
We raise 100% fullblood boers that are very low maintenance, hardy, easy keeper, gentle giants. Because boers have a high number of multiple kids, many of us are breeding for does with 4 clean teats that can raise many kids at a time with little to no problems. I have a full SA doe with four teats that is passing this on to her does. We raise our boers in the woods with little hay or grain and have little to no worm problems and very little need for medications. Everyone's experience will be different.
We run a small herd breeding "seed stock" for other breeders. Wish you were closer, I have a couple of nice buck kids I need to sell. LOL
The perfect comercial boer herd,IMHO, would be good does (do not have to be reg. or fullblood) with 4 teats and then a fullblood reg. buck. Put this herd on good browse and money can and is being made . Start with the right goats and you will get good goats.
Check out Jack Mauldin's web site for great info on boers.
www.jackmauldin.com

This is all MHO, but it is what we and many others are doing.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Hank
www.doublemfarmandchuckwagon.webs.com

BobbyB · #32 05/23/12, 12:40 PM

Hank, have yall bred a line of Boers with 4 quarters or just 4 working teats? All the Boers we had were as easy to keep as a Jersy nurse cow. No trouble at all.

Cliff · #33 05/23/12, 01:15 PM

Everybody always thinks "their breed" is best. Everyone I have heard talk about liking boers so much have never raised kikos. I have raised both, and I stuck with the boers for a pretty long time. Most of the people I know who have raised boers and also kikos will not have pure boers anymore. And I know quite a few folks who raise meat goats. For several years we belonged to a fairly large meat goat association here. Boers just aren't as hardy as kikos - both from my own experience and the experiences of many others. I understand people get attached to certain breeds for aesthetic or emotional reasons - in ways boers are more attractive, and they've been around longer so people are more used to them. And people tend to stick with the first breed they start with like I did with the boers for 10 years till I finally got disgusted. I might not have gotten rid of them even then if a friend hadn't talked me into raising some kikos. There is a big difference. I want stock that is easy to raise that I don't have to go to great lengths to accommodate.

Same reason I only have nubians for milk. Over time I've learned from experience that I will be pretty sure to like their milk without going to extremes to make it drinkable. Not gonna pasteurize, quick chill, sterilize equipment etc to get decent tasting milk just because I'm emotionally attached to one breed. It's just not worth all that effort to me.

I would like to try lamancha milk - I think they are the only major breed I haven't tried the milk of.

bluefish · #34 05/23/12, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff

Everybody always thinks "their breed" is best. Everyone I have heard talk about liking boers so much have never raised kikos. I have raised both, and I stuck with the boers for a pretty long time. Most of the people I know who have raised boers and also kikos will not have pure boers anymore. And I know quite a few folks who raise meat goats. For several years we belonged to a fairly large meat goat association here. Boers just aren't as hardy as kikos - both from my own experience and the experiences of many others. I understand people get attached to certain breeds for aesthetic or emotional reasons - in ways boers are more attractive, and they've been around longer so people are more used to them. And people tend to stick with the first breed they start with like I did with the boers for 10 years till I finally got disgusted. I might not have gotten rid of them even then if a friend hadn't talked me into raising some kikos. There is a big difference. I want stock that is easy to raise that I don't have to go to great lengths to accommodate.

Same reason I only have nubians for milk. Over time I've learned from experience that I will be pretty sure to like their milk without going to extremes to make it drinkable. Not gonna pasteurize, quick chill, sterilize equipment etc to get decent tasting milk just because I'm emotionally attached to one breed. It's just not worth all that effort to me.

I would like to try lamancha milk - I think they are the only major breed I haven't tried the milk of.

Not always, though. I started with nubians and I won't touch them with a 50' pole!

Cliff · #35 05/23/12, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thermopkt

Not always, though. I started with nubians and I won't touch them with a 50' pole!

Lol

Why, were they noisy?

BobbyB · #36 05/23/12, 06:10 PM

I dont believe that Boers do well where it rains a lot and I know most of TN gets plenty of rain. Its lush and green every time I visit my daughter in Murfreesboro.

Dad had a few Boers and where he lives right on the coast it normally is moist and green. He couldnt keep his healthy.

Around here, on the Northern edge of the Chihuahuan Desert, where it is much more arid than semi, they do very well and command top dollar at the major auctions. After years and years of the goat ranchers raising Spanish goats, it didnt take them long to start using Boer bucks to meat the kids up and not much longer after that to start breeding all Boers.

Im not talking them up because they are my breed of choice, I dont even own any, not any more and not right now. But when you see pastures full of them over hundreds of miles, they must be the best available for their situation.

But from experience, if you want big long bodied meat goats ( which Boers are not ) cross em with a big Nubian buck . I did it when the older kids were showing and the results were something else.

Cliff · #37 05/23/12, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyB

I dont believe that Boers do well where it rains a lot and I know most of TN gets plenty of rain. Its lush and green every time I visit my daughter in Murfreesboro.

Dad had a few Boers and where he lives right on the coast it normally is moist and green. He couldnt keep his healthy.

Around here, on the Northern edge of the Chihuahuan Desert, where it is much more arid than semi, they do very well and command top dollar at the major auctions. After years and years of the goat ranchers raising Spanish goats, it didnt take them long to start using Boer bucks to meat the kids up and not much longer after that to start breeding all Boers.

Im not talking them up because they are my breed of choice, I dont even own any, not any more and not right now. But when you see pastures full of them over hundreds of miles, they must be the best available for their situation.

But from experience, if you want big long bodied meat goats ( which Boers are not ) cross em with a big Nubian buck . I did it when the older kids were showing and the results were something else.

Very good point

I am super happy with the kiko nubian crosses. They are just huge. I still have some left over split teats here and there from the boer crosses way back I guess, but they don't cause any problems except for this one doe that kidded a couple months ago. Stupid thing will barely stand long enough to let the babies nurse so the one on the split teat gets a little shorted.

bluefish · #38 05/23/12, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff

Lol

Why, were they noisy?

Yes.

They also made sheep look strong, healthy, sturdy and smart. (Sorry sheep people) They tended to have bad feet, could get a baaad worm load if you even thought the word, died at the drop of a hat (comparatively) and didn't give squat for milk production. Did taste good though. Now I am more than happy with my 'scrub' goats. I have goats that produce lots of good milk, are healthy and vigorous. AND they don't get their heads stuck in the manger. How does a disbudded goat do that?!

And, they are quiet, except for the 1/8 nubian one. Hehehehe.

Cliff · #39 05/23/12, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thermopkt

Yes.

They also made sheep look strong, healthy, sturdy and smart. (Sorry sheep people) They tended to have bad feet, could get a baaad worm load if you even thought the word, died at the drop of a hat (comparatively) and didn't give squat for milk production. Did taste good though. Now I am more than happy with my 'scrub' goats. I have goats that produce lots of good milk, are healthy and vigorous. AND they don't get their heads stuck in the manger. How does a disbudded goat do that?!

And, they are quiet, except for the 1/8 nubian one. Hehehehe.

Oh my gosh trust me that is not representative of nubians in general. You had a bad experience. But I'm glad you like your scrub goats

gila_dog · #40 05/23/12, 08:25 PM

I have some Saanen and Oberhasli packgoats (wethers) that we use for hiking, camping, and hunting. They are big, strong, and good-natured pets. We live in dry, rough, steep, rocky country with all kinds of brushy browse growing. The area is grazed by cattle too. The cows eat the grass down and then maybe will eat some of the brush if they have to, but it's grass they want. So the brush just gets thicker and thicker, and the grass gets crowded out. The goats love the brush and only eat the grass early in the spring when it's the only green thing around. After that they mostly ignore it. I've had a number of USFS people tell me they think more goats would do the country good.

Things I've learned. Goats are evil, sneaky, and treacherous. They will eat your fruit trees, shade trees, roses, flowers, garden, etc, etc if they get a chance. If the kids have horns they will get their heads caught in fences, especially cattle panels. They are very vulnerable to predators like dogs and coyotes. If you plan to let them free range, then you will need some kind of guard dog or maybe a guard donkey. But in the right kind of country (like where you live) they would probably thrive and be very healthy. I don't think they do well in lush, wet, green places because of all the parasites, mosquitos, flies, worms, ticks, etc.