Labor NOW!!! HELP
 

Anyone around?
Is it time for me to panic yet?
Hard contractions started about 2:00 central time. That would be about 2 ours ago. The goo has been amber and that has been the only discharge we saw.
I have read that hard labor with goats can last 12 to 36 hours. Is that correct?
Cecelia has started to moan alot with the contractions and has now started grinding her teeth with the pains also.
I spoke to the people I got her from as they are my only personal goat contact in the area. She said to try to determine if the baby is turned right.
With rubber gloves and mineral oil, an intrusive exam did not seem to help much since I am new to that. Pointer finger as far in as possible I could only touch one hard flat surface. Bottom of one foot? Top of head? Could barely touch anything.

She seems to be in much pain during contractions.
Can this really take 12 to 36 hours?
Should I try to find a vet yet?
Do I need to just get a grip and just be comforting for her at this time?
I have already had a complete goat tounge bath while trying to comfort her.

I will try to monitor replys from my SO's phone.

SPIKE

Get a vet or go in. Something is not right.

Scrub up good, put all of your fingers together to a point to go thru the cervix. Picture a kid in your head and put the parts together - nose, one hoof, another hoof.

Sent you a pm with my number.

Most definitely something is not right!

How did you do the exam? You should be able to go in at least up to your elbow (for a full size goat). In a fingers length isn't far enough.

I am new to this "going in", so I was very careful and I am not sure a whole hand would go in. Even 2 fingers seemed tight so I stopped.

What breed of goat? Is this her 1st freshening?

You have to go in all the way and find nose/head, hooves or something. If the kid is stuck, it can be REALLY bad.

If you have no one else, get a vet out there pronto.

Also, how far apart are the contractions?

Nubian. first time.

go in between contractions. She has to be loose enough to let the kid out, so your hand will certainly go in. Stay calm, too. Take some breaths. If you are agitated, she will be more agitated. Move calmly, talk to her gently. You can do this.

Force my whole hand in, what ever it takes at this point?

what was she bred to?

Unless you have REALLY big hands, yes, you can go in. Make a cone of your fingers, tuck your thumb under your palm. Lube.

NO, they don't go 12 hours in hard labor. Anything over 45 minutes in hard labor is too long.

You have to visualize what you are feeling. Here's some pics of possibilities.
http://fiascofarm.com/galleries/Goat...ons/index.html

Really good birth video so you know how it's SUPPOSED to go.
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/goat_videos.htm#birth

Going back out. will monitor with phone. Hopefully

Thanks to all.

SPIKE

First Fresheners can be difficult. Like Elsbet said, stay calm. In between contractions, lube up really well, and get your hand inside and FEEL. Feel until you can think to yourself "That's a nose, that's a hoof" and get a mental picture of how the kid is positioned. You want front hooves forward, with the head between them.

This is important, as if the kid gets stuck, you will need to pull on those front hooves.

Remember that the kid is bigger than your hand! Don't worry too much.

here is a short video that I have that you can get a good look at what you should feel and how much room you have, this was a Nigerian doe I had one video where I had went in but cant find it

praying!

praying for a good outcome.

Oh so sorry. A flat hard surface sounds like a crown. Hard labor should not exceed 20 minutes of real pushing, and if she is moaning and grinding her teeth, that is real pushing. It is so hard, I know from experience. If she is full-sized, get your hand in there, and figure out how to get those hooves and muzzle up and out. If she is mini, get to a vet ASAP. Good luck.....

I dont have much advice for you, just praying all goes well.

btw if the head is too big to come with the feet you can push the feet back through they can come out with their legs going to the back of them, though not ideal sometimes thats easier than to wrestle a leg forward either they should both be level with the stomach or in front of the nose NOT one of each.

Lighting candles for you, Spike. Do remember that this will be the most agonizing, most worrisome birth you will ever have to do...as this is the first.

Hang in there Spike!

praying for a good outcome!

if you don't know any goat people nearby, perhaps call your county agri office and see if they know anyone that may be nearby to give you a hand.

I called our cousin (a cattleman) at midnite hysterical as it was our first birth and our favorite doe's too, she had triplets with the second one stuck sideways and I could only feel a spine going across the pelvic opening...my cousin reached wayyyy up in there where I was afraid to go..

scary, but all the triplets made it and am hoping you have the same blessing.

Even if you don't have any goat people near you, if you have anyone near you that has experience birthing, be it cows, horses or what you might want to get in touch with them. to some degree they are the same. i had a lamb i had to pull, but didn't realize how hard i had to pull, i thought i was going to break it in half, called a dairy man down the road, used to cows, and he laughed at how easy it was!! said it was his 1st lamb, but it was the same as cows, just smaller...

I sure hope everything is getting worked out! Praying!!

Is there a bubble of membrane with amniotic fluid? A cervix that is not open yet can feel like a hard flat surface as well. I am wondering if this is pre-labor. How about her udder, what does that look like? I have had some does do the occasional pushing, moaning, teeth grinding thing...they were just uncomfortable and having pre-labor. It took a number of births before I was able to tell the difference reliably.

If the udder is not tight, full and shiny, her vagina is too tight to get your hand in and there is no bubble of fluid, I would have to say that it might be best to wait and watch; she may not be in labor yet.

I had to rush my in labor doe into the vet last year. My regular vet was unavailable so I took her to a small animal vet who had never delivered goats before.

The biology is the same and she and her assistant were able to do what was necessary for a successful delivery.

She knew so little about goats she didn't even know what breed my goat was (hint: she has tiny little ears).

Hoping for a good outcome for Spike and the momma.

I hate waiting . . . wishing you the best!!!

No update yet? Wow, here I was hoping to come back in from milking and feeding bottle babies to find a birth announcement.

I know Oat Bucket...I sure hope all is ok! :(

Aw, dang it... Spike, I am hoping and praying for you and your goatie.

Me too, hope things are going well. I keep refreshing this thread.

fingers crossed that all is going well....

Checking in and hoping that no news is good news.

Anybody in phone contact with Spike? We're still hoping praying & pulling for & with you!

I just got home from work Spike & this is the first thread I opened! I'm praying real hard for you & your doe. Hopefully your just busy drying off healthy babies! Sending hugs too!

Thanks to all for your help, well wishes and sympathy during my homesteading ordeal. I appologize for not getting back sooner, but after returning from the vet everyone else had to be tended to before my bad day could start to wind down.
You guys are great!!!!!!!!

Cecelia is back home and hopefully will be fine and soon will forget this day. There was no way I was going to let all the vet offices close before seeing me this afternoon! It turned out to be nothing that could have been done today for the baby. It had been dead for a period of time.
Hopefully Cecelia will be able to breed this fall and have a successful birth next year.

Stop reading here if you do not want the terrible homesteader details!





I guess I should share the details, it may help someone later.
Sometimes you can not get your hand in to help. On this ocassion it would have not mattered. At the vet's office, they went through 3 people before they found someone with small enough hands. And they could get in only after giving Cecelia an epidural. Her birth canal was very small. pelvic bones were too close together.
The baby did not die today. It had been dead. They could not even get the baby out after getting a hand in. Poor Cecelia was screeming the whole time. That made it really bad for Lisa and I. But it got worse when they started pulling the dead baby apart to get it out! When the vet gets the chain out to hook to the availible parts, stop watching! That was very tramatic, to say the least. It was so torn apart, I do not even know what sex it was.
The vet cleaned her out and said she did not see/feel any damage that would stop her from trying to breed her again before thinking about culling her. With another years growth, she may give birth with no problem.
She was 85 pounds when we bred her.

She seems to be okay and is at least not in pain at this time. I washed her up when we got home and milked out about a pint of colostrum. Them teats sure are small when they do not get sucked on awhile first.
It was her first ride in the truck cab!

SPIKE

I'm so sorry :(

Oh, I am so sorry about the kid! But so happy that Cecilia will be all right!

In utero deaths sometimes happen, and a lot of us have had to deal with, to be frank, the absolute grossness of such. I am so glad that you were able to get Cecelia to an open vet, and that they were able to get the dead kid out of her!

What antibiotics does the vet have for you to give her?

Oh, I am sorry your first birthing was so horrible! But, still, I have to say again, that I am glad Cecilia made it!

My heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry! :(

I am so sorry about the baby but thank goodness Cecelia is OK. Your next birthing experience will be much better & normally they do it all on their own without assistance, it just sucks that the first time had to be the rare occasion that something was wrong.