Would you balk at buying from a CL positive herd...

Ford Zoo · #61 04/07/12, 01:16 PM

Sorry, I just had too.

anita_fc · #62 04/07/12, 10:45 PM

I propose that we rename CL. It SHOULD mean Caprine Leprosy!

ozark_jewels · #63 04/12/12, 06:39 PM

Ok.......this is my opinion based on experience with CL in my first herd and others herds, and lots of reading!
Would I buy from a CL herd?? Absolutely not, no matter if I am speaking of young wether, breeding doe or buck. That said.......
I have had contact with many CL animals over the years. Originally when I bought my first goat. She was a Nubian named Brandy and I knew NOTHING about goats. She developed a knot under her ear a few weeks after purchase and when it was ripe, we carefully busted it, cleaned it, iodined it, burnt all the pus and towels we used, and turned her back in with my sisters herd, where she lived. None of us wore gloves, had ever heard of contagious lumps, or gave it another thought. When over half my sisters herd started developing lumps.....that is when we started reading. And the more we read, the more horrified we were.
A long hard road later we were both CL-Free and a bit wiser. But for a year we managed hers and my small herds with CL. We handled these does day in and day out. We busted *many* abcesses and cleaned them out with bare hands. And I can tell you with all the physical labour I do, my hands are very rarely not cut and scratched in many places. None of my family contracted CL from handling all those open abcesses. So yes, it is proven that a human *can* catch it. Likely to catch it by casual(or even not so casual) contact? I don't think so. I know of *many* long-time goat owners(dairy and Boer), who have active CL and are hands-on with their goats every day. Not a one has contracted CL.
Also, I butchered *many* CL goats over the years(from my first herd and then from many others). Only one has ever had an internal abcess *anywhere* and that was actually under the hide on the underside of the lymp node. I very carefully checked every area for scars from past abcesses or any active abcesses. So I am a little skeptical that a perfectly healthy-looking goat can hide internal abcesses for long. The few seriously emaciated goats that I have put down for others and then opened up to try to find a cause, those does were the ones with internal abcesses. Not any of the healthy-looking ones. So if I'm looking to buy goats, and since the CL test is only truly accurate on the pus itself, I don't ask for tested herds. I go visit the entire herd and while we are talking, I run my hands over the entire goat, under the ears, the chest, the flank, udder, etc. If the whole herd is healthy-looking and lump free and especially if the owner is up-front about his stand on CL, I feel pretty confident in my buy.
And yes, I have eaten several CL does over the years. The meat is fine.
And I'm not really worried about CL hanging around in the soil for years and years. Soil in direct sunlight, rain, cold and snow is figured to be pretty sure to be safe after about 6 months to a year. Its the barns and sheds that I worry about. It is known to stick around in wood and damp places for much longer.
Anyway......it is a disgusting disease and I want nothing to do with it ever again. There is nothing more heartbreaking than to see a lovely well-fleshed goat with a shiny coat, and a huge abcess under its ear. Believe me, its not worth the chance.
Even a show wether that is terminal, I would advise against it. It goes to the show and interacts with all the other animals and humans. I'm less worried about a human contracting CL than I am a human petting on that goat, then petting all the other goats in the barn. And *if* it happens to get an abcess while its at home, chances are it will leave CL in the barn/shed, etc and if she decides she likes goats and wants a milker.....I'd be thinking twice about it.
Two years ago at the big Springfield Fair, there were two goat shows going on and there was also a petting zoo. Two out of the four goats in the petting zoo were under a year old, from two different farms and had very obvious CL lumps under their ears!! Countless adults and their kids petted these goats and then walked down to pet all the goats in the show barns. Yes, I was angry.
Anyway....I don't go crazy avoding even the thought of CL, but I'd advise against anyone knowingly buying from a CL herd. Unless its a meat animal who is going to the butcher asap.....Even then, I'd make sure it did NOT have an obvious abcess.
Just my thoughts.

Pony · #64 04/12/12, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where I want to

That Russian Roulette remark is personal and going too far. Sooner or later the chances are, unless you have a closed herd or you are lucky, you will have this problem and you should have the best information in order to deal with it. A CL goat can look perfectly fine and have a negative test- she can be too young at purchase to be tested at all. People you think you can trust may let you down.

No, that was not a personal remark Believe me, I can do "ad hominem" with the best of them. Nuh-uh. Not personal.

I have a closed herd. I would never take in an animal unless I was sure the the seller was at least as careful as I. Luck has nothing to do with it.

The people in whom I place my trust are the people who have earned my trust over time.

yarrow · #65 04/12/12, 08:56 PM

CL is what I call *my line in the sand* I have been lucky enough to never have had a case of CL in my herd (I've never even SEEN CL except in pictures).. It is my end all disease...I've never been to a livestock auction, even to watch.. (cooties on the shoes LOL).. there is a goat auction 10 miles from my home.. I don't show because of it ( a win or two isn't worth the risk of a contaminated pen or the contaminated hands of someone walking along petting all the pretty goats!!!).. I rarely bring in new stock, I can count on one hand the number of adult does I've ever bought over the years.. (then only from others who are as anti CL as I am).. even then they go into an isolated pen.. never near my own goats for a min. of six months.. last adult doe was in there for over a year!!!) I allow NO ONE into my doe barn/pens... visitors can see the goats from behind a fence (I bring out who I have for sale and let them meet in my front yard).. I NEVER bring back former herd members.. even if I raised them.. once they are sold and in another herd.. they don't come back here (simply because I don't know what they were exposed to)... IF somehow, some way we should suddenly have CL break out in our herd.. I would cull the ENTIRE herd (yes, I know it's harsh).. and I would NEVER again own goats.. that's how strongly I feel about this disease... Caprine Leprosy!!!!! I totally agree.

susie, mo ozarks

Backfourty,MI. · #66 04/12/12, 09:20 PM

I would never buy a goat infected with CL, or buy from a herd I knew had CL or even any abcesses in their herd.
I"m so paranoid I wash our boots with bleach as soon as we get home when we visit a friends cattle dairy farm, go to the county, fair, etc.
People always ask why I don't take my goats to the fair & that is exactly one reason why I don't. I'm scared they may catch something & i also worry about what people/kids might do or how they treat them when I am not there. I'd have to sleep in the stall with them.

beccachow · #67 04/13/12, 10:33 AM

Nope and nope. No CL. Nope nope nope.