Feeding pregnant does- where did I go wrong?

JBarGFarmKeeper · #41 03/13/12, 06:55 PM

I have read where Vicki McGaugh (Lonesome Doe Nubians) is certainly an opponent to excessive protein, however, she promotes alfalfa from the "cradle to the grave".

Alice In TX/MO · #42 03/13/12, 07:20 PM

I know.

wintrrwolf · #43 03/13/12, 09:19 PM

I definitely agree where you live and what they have to eat naturally plays a large part in what you need to supplement. Where I lived before was high in browse for my goats and they did WONDERful with minimal additions. Where I live now is high in grazing and have noticed a lowering in body condition where I now need to supplement a higher protein forage diet. And as I am now looking at various properties to buy I find myself thinking "this would make an excellent goat place or this one would suck for my goats but great for my horses" So I am trying to get a place with both, but if not I know I will have to supply the necessary supplements to my domesticated stock.
Keep in mind also if you purchase a Doe from another place how and what she was raised on could also effect her future with you.

eclipchic · #44 03/13/12, 09:25 PM

our pasture is pretty horse friendly, not so great for goats. Our hay field is nice though so they get most of their food from there. Shame we don't keep horses. The prior owner's of this home kept rodeo horses so everything is set up for horses and has been converted for goats

chamoisee · #45 03/13/12, 09:46 PM

I always gave my does as much alfalfa as I could afford...2nd or 3rd cutting throughout the pregnancy and until the pasture was doing really well (if I were doing it now they would get supplemental alfalfa through the summer). Pregnant does got grain, boss and beet pulp. We freshened around 20 does every spring. No dead does, no milk fever. I do not think this has anything to do with the alfalfa. Goats are not cattle and cannot be managed like cattle. Feeding alfalfa 24/7 all year round is pretty standard for many of the big name goat breeders. This would not be the case if their very ex$pen$ive does were dropping dead from milk fever due to eating alfalfa.

My best guess is that this was just a freak occurrence, because the management sounds fine to me and a sight better than many, many goats ever get, and somehow those manage to survive. :-/

chamoisee · #46 03/13/12, 09:52 PM

Keep in mind though, my does freshened as yearlings, were heavy milkers and were milked for the full 10 months or more if they were up to it. They were never overweight, were always milked even after being bred, etc.

Frankly I have seen goats at some of the shows that look like they are getting way too much feed, period...and they are not producing as much as my skinny minny girls did. :-/ So I don't know, it probably depends on the herd...but I would not be blaming yourself or your feeding program. Sometimes stuff just happens.

steff bugielski · #47 03/14/12, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller

Yeah a goat that is only milking 9 lbs doesn't need alfalfa unless it's a very tiny goat.

A goat that only milks 8 to 10 lbs should be able to do fine on goat feed and grass hay. Really even up to 12.

I find on the ones milking 16 or above they are running a bit finer line metabolically speaking and need high quality forage.

Well they are giving 9 lbs in the morning milking only. They are feeding triplets all day so very little milk at night. After the kids leave, next month they will most likely give me 15+ a day. They have good weight on them. Certainly no one is thin.

This is not a new idea for us, we have done this for over 15 years and the only time we had a problem is when we added alfalfa. I am not say not to feed alfalfa. Feed it if you wish. But it should not be fed when the doe is dry, only once she starts to milk. It messes with her own ability to store and release her own calcium reserves. If she is fed calcium daily when dry she has no reason to store up any. But when she delivers her hormones tell her to release the reserves, but she has none. She then suffers from no reserves.

I do not know the composition of the hay but the guy I get it from does and he gives me a copy of the sample tests every cutting. I do know it runs 18%-22% protein. But I know there is no alfalfa in it.

Alice In TX/MO · #48 03/14/12, 07:26 AM

It's not *just* alfalfa. It's the protein level. If you are feeding alfalfa *and* high protein feed, I understand that can exacerbate high protein metabolism problems.

More later, too much to do right now.

eclipchic · #49 03/14/12, 09:53 AM

Thanks Alice and Steff.....both of your points lead to maybe too much protein which somewhat correlates with what the breeder was going with too. It sounds reasonable enough anyhow. She was getting 16% protein plus our hay which has alfalfa and some legumes plus alfalfa pellets.....it could have certainly been too much.

and Steff about the calcium, that makes some sense too. I'm formulating a plan here

Thanks for helping me learn.

Alice In TX/MO · #50 03/14/12, 11:56 AM

Saying again, just to keep the potential uproar at a minimum......

There are a few of us just starting to explore this issue. I am going to ask the lactation vet for research. Some of us are digging online. Another has the advice of a LARGE dairy goat operation's herdsman.

It's a work in progress. Please be patient.

Hollowdweller · #51 03/14/12, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steff bugielski

But it should not be fed when the doe is dry, only once she starts to milk. It messes with her own ability to store and release her own calcium reserves. If she is fed calcium daily when dry she has no reason to store up any. But when she delivers her hormones tell her to release the reserves, but she has none. She then suffers from no reserves.

I basically agree.

I mean I've fed alfalfa to pregnant does without a problem before and I had a doe get milk fever AFTER she freshened and I believe it is because she wasn't getting alfalfa.

Govero Farms · #52 03/14/12, 12:36 PM

Sammyd be careful for saying never have becuz it will happen to u.

I believe what copperpenny is right. I wouldnt lay off of alfalfa pellets.

To me it sound like she just sudden stop eating and it will make her into ketosis and hypocalcemic. Maybe the other goat bossing her around and make her not eat enough. It is hard to say. U are doing the right thing.

steff bugielski · #53 03/15/12, 02:05 PM

I do not want to cause a big issue but who here raises Boer goats?
I would like to know if they get alfalfa. Since the idea of deer vs goats does not work how about boers vs dairy.
The same animal 100%, only difference is one is one has been selected for meat, the other for dairy.