Day 156 - Natural induction methods?

Oat Bucket Farm · #21 02/12/12, 11:59 AM

Here is a link for a homemade CMPK substitute http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=27.0

Wags · #22 02/12/12, 12:32 PM

Ok, the gel will go back today. No signs at all of labor over the last 16 hours. Nothing in the birth canal. Her udder is tight this morning, but I can still feel a bit of ligs.

She was bred when a buck jumped the fence while we were on vacation. When she was about 2 months bred (which we didn't know at the time) she was given a light dose of lute. She didn't abort or come into heat. Could that have any connection to the delay? From the ultrasound and the one baby that was taking up the entire screen, the kid seems healthy and put together correctly.

JBarGFarmKeeper · #23 02/12/12, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wags

Ok, the gel will go back today. No signs at all of labor over the last 16 hours. Nothing in the birth canal. Her udder is tight this morning, but I can still feel a bit of ligs.

She was bred when a buck jumped the fence while we were on vacation. When she was about 2 months bred (which we didn't know at the time) she was given a light dose of lute. She didn't abort or come into heat. Could that have any connection to the delay? From the ultrasound and the one baby that was taking up the entire screen, the kid seems healthy and put together correctly.

I tried about 60 days ago to 'abort' my Great Pyr because she got bred to our male Great Pyr. She had a very hard summer...hot spots, etc....At one point she disappeared and I feared her dead. However, she did return.

We all "saw" when the two dogs locked up so there was no question as to "days post-estrus" therefore I researched on-line for options to abort the pups. One option was Lute. There were detailed instructions that were followed and the determining factor for me to try it was..."if it doesn't work the pups will not be deformed by the process..."

Well, it didn't work. However, she only had 3 pups, as opposed to the 8 last go-round. They are healthy (and so is she, thankfully). It didn't seem to disrupt anything with the remaining pups or the process.

Just giving you our experience...in a dog.

CaliannG · #24 02/12/12, 01:04 PM

~grins~ Thaiblue can tell you ALL ABOUT lute babies.

thaiblue12 · #25 02/12/12, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

~grins~ Thaiblue can tell you ALL ABOUT lute babies.

No doubt, lol all 14 of mine like this one can tell you about not using enough lute!

Day 156 - Natural induction methods? - Goats

I would not return the paste Wags, as long as you mix it with something she will be fine. Like I said mine got the cow paste on Saltines, not mixed and had no ill effects, I will be mixing it in the future. I only give it to does who kid quads or quints. I have not tried it for labor, so no advice/experience there.
Hopefully she kids today before she drives you insane

mpete · #26 02/12/12, 03:04 PM

If the kids are not lined up properly the cervix may not open, but the doe would still push.

ShyAnne · #27 02/12/12, 04:27 PM

I have read of and once myself used a method to open a dilating cervix in sluggish labor.
When you go 'in' and check the doe you can feel if the cervix is starting to dialate. usually you can feel a small hole in the center the size of a finger or two. IF the doe is in labor and starting to dilate, you can massage the inside of the cervix, going around in a circle. This manually dilates the cervix, and you will be able to feel the kid parts on the other side. You dont need to apply much pressure just be sure to circle,from the center of the cervix. It tends to work very quickly and typically with in a few minutes the doe will have contractions on her own. You can recheck again after 15 minutes and manually dilate again if needed.
If the wrong kid parts are presenting you will know and have an opportunity to correct.

JBarGFarmKeeper · #28 02/12/12, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyAnne

I have read of and once myself used a method to open a dilating cervix in sluggish labor.
When you go 'in' and check the doe you can feel if the cervix is starting to dialate. usually you can feel a small hole in the center the size of a finger or two. IF the doe is in labor and starting to dilate, you can massage the inside of the cervix, going around in a circle. This manually dilates the cervix, and you will be able to feel the kid parts on the other side. You dont need to apply much pressure just be sure to circle,from the center of the cervix. It tends to work very quickly and typically with in a few minutes the doe will have contractions on her own. You can recheck again after 15 minutes and manually dilate again if needed.
If the wrong kid parts are presenting you will know and have an opportunity to correct.

This post reminded me of a post I read last year on a Yahoo!group as well. That lady said the same thing PLUS she said you could mix Lute with lube (KY jelly or other) and apply it directly to the cervix as you manually stimulate.

Wags · #29 02/12/12, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyAnne

I have read of and once myself used a method to open a dilating cervix in sluggish labor.
When you go 'in' and check the doe you can feel if the cervix is starting to dialate. usually you can feel a small hole in the center the size of a finger or two. IF the doe is in labor and starting to dilate, you can massage the inside of the cervix, going around in a circle. This manually dilates the cervix, and you will be able to feel the kid parts on the other side. You dont need to apply much pressure just be sure to circle,from the center of the cervix. It tends to work very quickly and typically with in a few minutes the doe will have contractions on her own. You can recheck again after 15 minutes and manually dilate again if needed.
If the wrong kid parts are presenting you will know and have an opportunity to correct.

My goat mentor came over this afternoon and tried something similar - no results other than my doe now thinks she is her baby. The cervix was completely closed.

If we don't get a miracle tonight then she will be headed for a c-section first thing in the morning as they are concerned about the size of the kid they saw on Friday's ultrasound.

Pony · #30 02/12/12, 09:54 PM

Darn it! I saw that you'd posted and was hoping for cute pix of Tsunami's kids.

Praying that she goes tonight and doesn't need the C.

Freya · #31 02/12/12, 11:29 PM

Fingers crossed for you!!!!!!

mpete · #32 02/13/12, 11:59 AM

How are things going?

**mygoat** · #33 02/13/12, 12:44 PM

Why not give a lute and dex injection? That's what is normally given to induce labor.

Wags · #34 02/13/12, 01:23 PM

Tsunami is at OSU Vet college now - they are going to try an induction first and if that doesn't do the trick they will do a c-section about 4pm this afternoon. Really praying the induction works.

CaliannG · #35 02/13/12, 01:30 PM

Sending warm, healing thoughts your way for Tsunami.

Oat Bucket Farm · #36 02/13/12, 02:01 PM

Fingers crossed she is able to deliver normally.

**mygoat** · #37 02/13/12, 02:07 PM

Induction takes more than a morning to kick in... if you give lute, you normally have labor signs 12-24 hrs later...?

Or are they using oxytosin? Be warned, that only causes contractions and not dilation. Can kill a goat if it ruptures it's uterus trying to push something out an undilated cervix.

Wags · #38 02/13/12, 04:13 PM

I'm not sure what they are using. They were planning on doing another ultrasound and monitoring her closely. She is at a top vet college and will have a dozen students and two instructors attending to her since this is sheep & goat week in their training. She is a very people friendly and personable doe. When we were over their Friday, even the receptionist was coming in to check up on her progress.

Wags · #39 02/13/12, 09:39 PM

They ended up doing a c-section on her and she had 2 gorgeous tri-colored doe kids and a lovely buck kid. Sadly they were about a week premature and didn't survive.

All three were already a good size, so she might have ended up with an emergency c-section anyway if they had "cooked' longer. Another week though doesn't really match up with her heat cycles, so we are left quite puzzled as to exactly when she got bred and how one of the bucks managed to get to her through the fence.

The Vet thinks that Tsunami stands an excellent chance of conceiving again, and if she heals up ok we will keep her and try again next year, but breed her to kid in late May or early June to give her body plenty of recovery time.

KrisD · #40 02/13/12, 10:22 PM

Oh gosh wags I'm so sorry to hear the kids didn't make it. Hoping she heals fast. Just goes to show us all that none of us are perfect even the awesome vet college. Give her some extra lovin from me.