Bummed.....Awful Day...

thaiblue12 · #41 12/19/11, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

I would not have a bottle raised intact male, I beleive the loss of personal space respect can increase the chances of aggressive issues.
I also think Crystal was not the cause.

Nor did I say that his being bottle raised was the cause, however I did say that being bottle raised increases the incidence of attacks such as this, and that it could be a number of things.

HF that article was mostly about bulls which are dangerous bottle raised or not. I have two bucks, one is bottle raised and the other was handled daily and is also super friendly. My boys are Nigies and easier to handle then a full sized boy, but bottle or not they are going to be handled. They have never butted me, tried to hump or anything. They respect my space or they get smacked and they back off. I disagree with that article putting all males in the same category. I would never own a wild deer, raise it by bottle, leave it intact and think it would not really hurt or kill me during a rut. My goats are domesticated and they do not have the bull attitude either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

brain tumor was my first thought too. or he was very badly injured as a very young kid but assume this would have been noticed?

crystal was there any problem when he was disbudded?

I think there was with him and disudding, a late removed scur? Or something like that.
Would that have caused an issue? I do not think something like that could cause a tumor. Which I am still thinking he has. The behavior towards the chickens is beyond bizarre, even before he went after Crystal.

If none of them come through for you, look for a freezer on Craig's maybe you can pick one up cheap and the feed him to Jasper.

RedSonja · #42 12/19/11, 02:30 PM

Crystal, is there a zoo or big cat rescue you could donate him to for meat?

Stinks that your CL ad was flagged, some people are just idiots. I have dealt with that as I bought a Haflinger mare last month and as soon as the seller left from delivering her she jumped the fence and ran up the mountain behind our property. I put up a lost pony ad in the lost & found section of CL here and it keeps getting flagged and deleted. Um, duh, it's lost, why flag it in lost & found?

Maybe keep putting the ad up on CL, the flaggers have to get tired of their game eventually...

*hugs* as wanted/needed. Can't imagine the frustration of not being able to dispose of a problem animal.

-Sonja

cmharris6002 · #43 12/19/11, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiblue12

I think there was with him and disudding, a late removed scur? Or something like that.
Would that have caused an issue? I do not think something like that could cause a tumor. Which I am still thinking he has. The behavior towards the chickens is beyond bizarre, even before he went after Crystal.

Although a botched disbudding or scur removal can lead to traumatic brain injury which could lead to increased aggressive behavior and anxiety as the goat ages, I agree that a tumor is a more likely scenario.

olivehill · #44 12/19/11, 03:34 PM

How much land do you have? You don't HAVE to dig a hole, toss him out on the back forty. Consider it a peace offering to the coyotes and buzzards. He'll be gone within a couple days.

susanne · #45 12/19/11, 03:49 PM

we had really good success in burying under the manure compost pile.

LoneStrChic23 · #46 12/19/11, 04:42 PM

Yes, both Sam & Tonka needed their disbudding job redone. There were no complications with either boy, & had no reason for concern or worry afterwards.

I have no where on the property to dumo him......not enough land, & the woods behind my house where I walk them belongs to my neighbor & it's not far from where his deer blind is set up.

chamoisee · #47 12/19/11, 04:54 PM

I guess I would either butcher him for dog food or advertise him for meat with the specification that he MUST be killed at your place to make sure that he doesn't hurt anyone or end up being used as a sire elsewhere.

This is just bizarre. I've had a number of bottle raised Alpine bucks, including one that was raised in the house and was a pet....and none of them were nasty or evil like this. The former house goat was so gentle that my toddlers could walk under his belly. Even when he was in rut, he was not aggressive.

This is some kind of a fluke, but he has to be put down. Is there a zoo nearby that could use him for food?

dragonfly65 · #48 12/19/11, 07:09 PM

Well you're in Texas it shouldn't be very hard to find someone to take him for food. I've had someone stop by and ask how much for sheep (pointing on the hill to my pygora wether)? When I told him it was a goat he said How much for goat? One reason I can't get rid of these Jacob's sheep. They are my kids pets and I know anyone who would take them would BBQ them.

oldmcdonaldsfarm · #49 12/20/11, 12:07 AM

You might want to contact some of the deer processors in your area. Maybe they could at least dispatch and dispose of him for a small fee.

Otter · #50 12/20/11, 11:35 AM

Call the sale barn back. Ask them if they know of the closest weigh station for goats and sheep. There are a bunch through the southwest, there may be one near you.
How the one near me works is you bring the goat in, they class and grade the goat (dairy buck, good condition), weigh him and give you a price per pound. He leaves the weigh station in little packages. Lots of people around here raise just for the weigh station. Also ask anywhere you drive past and see meat or "spanish" goats, they likely know where to bring them.

Happy Farmer, we appreciate the article, but it is more the isolation/species then the fact of bottle feeding. Dairy goat bucklings are nearly always bottle fed, and for one to be aggressive towards humans is the rare exception, not the rule. But they are generally bottle fed in groups of kids, within sight and sound of other goats, as the OP's buck was. This is standard raising procedure for generations.
Different species make a difference. Any zookeeper will tell you they are more afraid to go in with the deer then the lions, even though the lions are quite often bottle babies.
I raise ridiculously friendly kittens.
I just raised a litter of very sweet puppies.
What makes the kittens ridiculously friendly would make shy, snappish dogs.
What made very sweet puppies would make cats that don't trust people and hide when company comes.
I wouldn't own a bottle fed horse of either sex, but would bottle feed a cow without hesitation. Sauce for the goose isn't always sauce for the gander.

Hollowdweller · #51 12/20/11, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

we had really good success in burying under the manure compost pile.

That's how I do them all. Lime and cover with manure behind the barn.

thaiblue12 · #52 12/20/11, 12:07 PM

She found someone who is going to butcher and use him, so he is not going to waste:

Yay!! Solution found!

HappyFarmer · #53 12/20/11, 07:09 PM

I'm going to beat the dead horse here, because most of the responses to the bottle babies are not in the correct context or at least I am understanding that from the posts. I was NOT bashing bottle babies (the article did, but I did not only that I wouldn't own one because of personal space issues).

My point is, that IF you have a loco buck (for whatever reason, brain tumor, genetics, lets' say predisposed/it would happen anyway/carma whatever, etc.) that animal in general has EVERY reason to run TO the caretaker when it goes beserk. The reason why, is because it was bottle raised, it's natural behavior was changed, personal space normally a wide berth is slim to null, and when that happened it turned(s) to people rather than away. Wether in happiness to see the owner or aggression at the owner they will turn to the owner & consequences (happy or sad) will occur. Either way the cartaker taught them this when they provided the bottle.

It's a given bucks CAN get over protective during rut/breeding season, and it's also a fact that does CAN get over protective during kidding/rearing season. No difference - hormones doing what they were meant to do. They don't need to be loco to do this, it's a natural reaction. This can happen with dam raised or bottle raised.

Nothing anyone has posted has given me even the tiniest bit of reason to believe that bottle rearing could not have been a contributing factor (to the bucks reaction), and private messages concur that it is a possibility that bottle feeding could have been a contributing factor. Not that it was or wasn't in this particular instance, NOONE knows, so I posted the article for others to read the reasoning - whether they believe it or not is an individual choice.

Having "done this for years" has absolutely in comparison to a loco animal, and just for the record I have 6 bucks, all very well behaved also, that I would not put in the aggressive class above. I don't turn my back on them even for a minute.

I also disagree with some statements in the article, though not the ones argued. I believe stallions can fall into that category, and also dogs from my experiences.

Again, I'm going to repeat, being bottle raised may or may not have something to do with this (reaction of the buck not the cause), but is is another thought to ponder with an article to back it up.

Do with it what you may.
HF

HappyFarmer · #54 12/20/11, 07:11 PM

In regards to rabies testing and fees, I found this for the state of TX:

""How much it will cost to test the rabies specimen?

The Texas Department of State Health Services does not charge for rabies testing. However, the TDSHS will not pay shipping charges."

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/lab/rab_main.shtm#q7

HF