Help, please. Miscarriage. Doe not doing well.

If you suspect Chlamidia (from barn cats mentioned) it is an abortion disease-one time for each doe but devastating just the same.
You will need LA200 and lots of it if you want to save the rest of your does from aborting.

HF

PLEASE DO NOT STOP THE ANTIBIOTICS! She has an infection which is why it is smelly. I too would switch to LA or to Nuflor but use what you can find. I'm a birth doula and retained placentas are more common then people think. A normal birth shouldn't smell. The calcium isn't going to hurt her but it is not the problem. If you have a heated blanket haul it out and keep her warm. HappyFarmer is right Lute AND Oxytocin if you can get it. Call other goat farms someone has to have it around and may be willing to share it. FLUSH that uterus out as much as possible. Flush as much as possible. You can use womens douches if you don't have saline. You can even use diluted Betadine 50/50 with warm water. It doesn't have to be sterile at this point because she already has a massive infection . If the stuff rotting placenta doesn't come out of there soon you WILL lose her. Not trying to be a B**** but you need to know this is serious.

__________________
http://silvercreek-farm.blogspot.com
Livin' the good life

HOWEVER, if you don't get the cervix open, you will be rinsing the vagina only. You need expert help. REALLY expert. I wouldn't even attempt it myself.

__________________
Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Checking in again...

Still low temp, no other changes.

I read all the responses and proceeded as follows:

Gave her the CMPK - 30cc orally.

Tried to rinse her out with a saline solution but it appears that, as Alice said, I am only getting it into the vagina. The water that is coming out is clear - nothing at all like what she was pushing before. I'm still seeing no signs of change from giving the Lute. I literally have no one to call for oxytocin. The only other person within any reasonable area that has goats is a family memeber and no luck there. The other goat farm that was within an hour drive sold off their herd. If there is anyone else closer, I don't know about them.

Trying to locate a heating pad to take out along with some blankets. Will dose with the Nuflor when I take the blankets out.

Kris, I didn't take your response to be b*****y. I'm not sure why I came across as not thinking this is a serious matter. Believe me, that isn't the case.

Regarding Chlamidia, I can't say for sure. We keep our hay in an enclosed building where the cats cannot get in. But I can't say that that is the case for the farm from where we purchase it. It's entirely possible. Fortunately, I didn't breed other does yet - wanted to wait for milder kidding weather.

Just located the number for the other vet and got a message that the office will be open again on Monday.

I realize things are looking grim at this point but heading back out to see what I can do.

Thanks again for the input.

__________________
Anne
Give me a sweet home set among the trees,
With friends whose words are ever kind and true.
-Phoebe Carey-

LONE PINE FARM
Barnesville, PA
Boer goats, Angora goats, Eclectic mix of poultry

You can manually dilate the cervix if you have to...at least, that is what I had to do. Try as hard as you can to get a finger into the os of the cervix and massage it gently but also with mild to moderate pressure to try to stretch the opening. As soon as you can get two fingers into it, get two fingers massaging, etc. If you can't get it to dilate fully, you may still be able to thread some rubber or clean plastic tubing through the cervix and flush her out that way. Even two or three fingers width might be enough.....

Oxytocin- can also be produced by her own body via milking her or letting kids nurse. The nipple/teat stimulation releases oxytocin into the bloodstream.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this....but I would not recommend waiting until Monday. Just do what you can because at this point, there is not a lot to lose. :-(

__________________
http://upwardlypoor.blogspot.com/

Forgot....you may need lubrication....if you don't have lube, use olive oil.

__________________
http://upwardlypoor.blogspot.com/

if she aborted yesterday evening and the kids were normal and not rotten, why would she be toxic already? Does It really only takes 12 hours for retained placenta to have gone rotten enough to make her this sick?

If you have CMPK injectable it is better. Give 30cc on each side of her ribs.

__________________
Judy
Oat Bucket Farm
Central Kansas


The past is valuable as a guidepost, but not so if used as a hitching post.

Kids probably hadn't been dead long enough to rot yet....but there is also the very unpleasant possibility that there is a fourth kid in there, decomposing, which made the uterus dump the whole lot of them. Dead rotting kids are typically not easy to birth or to pull. And yeah, it doesn't take very long for dead kids or placenta to start smelling worse than you could ever imagine.

__________________
http://upwardlypoor.blogspot.com/

HYPOCALCEMIA IN LATE-GESTATION (and lactating) DOES:
Feeding to Prevent it
By Sue Reith (1/5/07 update)

Hypocalcemia is a life-threatening condition that shows up when a doe is either pregnant or lactating, but getting fed an unbalanced diet that doesn’t provide her with enough calcium for both herself and her growing fetuses or for milk production. It can appear at any time during the last 2 months of pregnancy, right up to the doe's due date, as well as at any time while she’s lactating.

Symptoms: The first thing she'll do is refuse to eat her grain. Soon after that she won’t want her hay either. Without quick intervention she’ll become weak and wobbly, lethargic and depressed. If still untreated by then, she’ll lie down and not want to get up. If you take her temperature when you first see these changes, it’ll be normal (102.3), but soon after that it’ll drop to sub-normal (below 102). Unless corrective measures are begun right away you’ll lose both the doe and her fetuses.
(pasted from Dairygoatinfo)

I suspect that with the mostly browse diet, the does body was just not able to handle the sudden growth of the develping kids so close to term. I really do not think you are dealing with an infection, but honestly I don't think the antibiotics will hurt as long as you are giving probiotics as well.

Oxy can be obtained from rabbit breeders, cattle ranchers, and most any other type of breeder. I know it may not always be an option, but I know when I was in high school, we always kept oxy available for the rabbits.

To clear up a misconception, Clamydia does not come from cats. It is a disease that is trasmitted from doe to kids, sexually, or by nose to nose contact..
Toxoplasmosis comes from cats and is relitively rare in goats.

And yes, CMPK works much better and quicker if injected like it was meant to be. A sub-normal temp means the rumen is not working so most of what you put down her throat, besides burning the skin of her throat, also won't be digested. A goat cannot digest unless it's temp is over 100.5.

Well, I lost her during the night.

I made one last attempt at going in but could only get my hand inside before she would start thrashing and screaming. She's a big girl and I only have about 15 pounds on her weight-wise so I didn't want it to turn into a wrestling match with my arm inside her. I contemplated trying to tie her somehow but, being that she would go into such severe distress that quickly - and coupled with the fact that her temp just kept going down - I figured it was tantamount to torturing her at for a lost cause.

At that point, I figured I would make her as comfortable as I could for the night. I had her bundled with her blankets and heating pad in a nice nest of straw. Got some more fluid in her and told her she was a good girl. Two hours later, she's gone, still in her same spot as if she had just gone off to sleep.

So now I'm trying to decide if, after working all day today, I am going to be up for making the rather long drive to the diagnostic lab or if I should just let my hubby compost the carcass - he'll be coming home from a 12 hour night shift to this. I might be able to talk him into cutting her open to see what, if anything, was in the uterus - it's all going to depend on how tired he is when he gets home.

And now I have to head off to work.

I want to thank each an every one of you for your help and input. At the very least, I have a good idea of some things to keep on hand. I'm just going to approach my vet that we use for our dogs to see if she will give me prescriptions rather than even bother with the large animal vet. Oddly enough, while searching for the name of the other vet, I came across an article about the dire need for livestock veterinarians in Pennsylvania. Oh the irony.

Thanks again for your help and support.

__________________
Anne
Give me a sweet home set among the trees,
With friends whose words are ever kind and true.
-Phoebe Carey-

LONE PINE FARM
Barnesville, PA
Boer goats, Angora goats, Eclectic mix of poultry

I'm so sorry for the loss of your doe.
A necropsy is always helpful in determining the cause of death, but in your case you know it was miscarriage complications. It would be beneficial to find out why she aborted if possible which was the start of the problem. If you choose to drop her off mention this though it should be obvious to them.

Mancha mom clearly there were 2 abortion diseases mentioned. My parentheses comment was referring to that sentence of toxo, and meant as a continuation of the abortion disease thought process, as another potential reason why she may have miscarried. It was not meant to link the diseases to cats, but rather link the 2 replies to another possible cause as nowhere else is it mentioned the potential cause of the miscarriage. I'm sorry if you or others read it otherwise it was not meant in that way though I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

HF

I'm so sorry you lost her

__________________
~Jill~

Riverbend Farm

WWW.Freewebs.com/jyllie63

I always have Goatmilk soap for sale

Sorry you lost your doe...it would be interesting to know if there was a retained dead fetus due to the smell you described. It sounds like you did everything you could with what you had available.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Try to take comfort in that she went peacefully, all snugged in, while sleeping. (((hugs)))

__________________
Teach only Love...for that is what You are

did not had the time to read the whole thread. sorry for the loss
here is what i would have done in a case like this,
bo-se 1cc per 40 pound of body weight, 3 to five cc fortified b complex injectable,
2cc lute to open her up again, takes about two days, since she obviously has still something in there, do a uterine flush with oxytetracycline after she opened up.
low temp can be hypocalcemia or because she is not eating. after birth or lochia should just only smell like, well sounds cross but, menstruation blood. no funky or foul odor.

now, do you give bo-se prior to breeding??? if nothing else was wrong, seleniuml deficiency can be the reason for abortion. i had this happen once.
if she has an infection going, 2cc penicillin is way too low. you need at least 1cc per 10 pound body wweight twice a day for at least 10 to 14 days.

hope that helps in the future?

__________________
Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-ash-shams
Nubian Dairy Goats

please visit us at
http://www.ain-ash-shams.net

I'm so sorry. You tried so hard.

I would also encourage a necropsy.

__________________
Ares Electronic Cigarettes - 15% off your first order with coupon code HOMESTEADING at checkout
*
Knights and Dreams Farm

So So Sorry!!! I know how horrible this feels. BIG HUGGS! If you do decide to open her up take a note pad out and jot down what you see it can help you remember in the future. It is a great learning tool unfortunately the hard way. My thoughts are with you today. You did EVERYTHING you could.

__________________
http://silvercreek-farm.blogspot.com
Livin' the good life