Buck Down

I put Warrior over the half barrell yesterday evening. He did not slide off as in the past but stayed put pretty well and he could control his head pretty good. There was just one time it went off over to the left side and he was able to bring it back to the center line on his own. I am not sure that it did not happpen more from my being so close to his head and body on the right side and him trying a bit to move away from me.

He keeps wanting to curl his hooves and feet up under him on the barrell. I stretched, rubbed and excercised his legs out and in and out and in and out and in. He was tired--I was tired. The left leg seems to be a little stiffer than the right. He joints also creak and crack. Is that normal? When I got him off of the barrell and then fed him, he went right up on the hind legs and "walked" on his knees to his feed pan and ate.

Has anyone every applied a "rubbing compound on a goats legs and joints? Would it burn them you think? Or is there maybe something else that is used for joints that I am not aware of?

Occasionally a kid will be all scrunched up in the womb and can't straighten their front legs. With some stretching & using it's body weight to keep the legs straight often they straighten out within a week or two.

It sounds like Warriors tendons are retracting from non-use. I'm kinda surprised because it's only been 2 weeks but sure sounds like that's what's happening. Stretching is good, steady, hold the hoof/hock area & gently press down on his knee several times a day & hold it there at full extention. It would be better if his own weight could be applied it would extend his muscles more often. It can be painful. Two of my sons had ACL surgery & the therapist made sure they reached 95% of their extension, plain old use recovered the last 5%. Very very painful when you lose it to regain it back but it is necessary. I know not quite the same but similar..

Glucosomine or Gen Gay might help, however it won't stop the retraction. Only extending will do that. You wan't to gain back what he lost and not lose any more.

HF

I have been gently flexing his legs and will gently pull the front ones out from under him, slowly pulling them all the way forewad and then bak. When I do this I am also rubbing his legs and very gently pushing down on the knee and the even flexing the hoof/hock area also. I have been doing this every day several times as I thought that this might happen and might be a possibility.

BUT-----today he tried to put that left foot under him and push up. He had the hoof flat and maybe his knee at about a 90 degree and I could see the leg shaking a little as he tried to push up. The right leg was still bent all the way at the knee and it looked like he was trying to get up enough to pull the right leg forward and to put the hoof on the ground. He just could not quiet make it though. He would drop back down and then in a little while he would try again.

At least he knows that those hooves need to go flat on the ground and will need to push up. He got his meds today-the Red Cell and Probios but did not like it. He sure can clamp his mouth shut tight. Not the response that was going on 2 weeks ago.Then he just let me manage his mouth with the meds with no fight last week. His eyes though are not any darker pink than they have been and that concerns me a little.

I checked his body all over today for any lumps and bumps and there are none other than he is thin. I was also worried about absceses from all of those shots and there does not seem to be any at all at this point.

I will do the half barrell again tomorrow and stretching excercises again. His backend is still able to get up and it is almost all of the way up but it is ahrd to judge as the front end is not folowing yet. But it is certainly progress.

His coat looks a mess though. At his shoulders it is yellow from the B Complex shots. I squeezed the syringe once before I got it in and then I think that I thought I had the needle in and it just went all over his coat. So now I have a yellow patched goat and coat. A goat of many colors? But he has been through alot and has done sooooo well. So at this point his coat is rather attractive to me.

Reading your posts on this has brought back so many memories of a few of my goats doing this. You are doing such a wonderful job on your boy it brings tears to my eyes to think of the love you have for him. I had my boys in my kitchen when they went down to stay warm and not get bullied by other goats. It's strange mine were all boys and so is yours. Your last entry discribes just how mine came around to a tea. From my learning your boy will be up and around in about 5 days. I had put a splint on the weak front leg and that helped him get better balance.(small piece of pvc pipe cut in half and put on the back of leg by knee and wraped tight with ace bandage to hold knee straight). I did this for half an hour every few hours. Most of my boys recovered at the same time or within a day or two of each other. Great to hear he might have won the battle.

Reading this is great drama and I stop in every day to see the progress. We are all rooting for this guy. I'm just worried about his weight - with all he is eating I hope he starts gaining.
When I've had pale gums on goats, I have found blackstrap molasses helps.
You have made a herculean effort and are to be be highly commended for your determination.

Still praying for your guy and you!! Come on Warrior!!

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Hialeahs Dairy Goats, raising high quality Nubians, ( mini nubes coming soon) and Nigerian Dwarfs!


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Keep up the good work!! Both you and he are fighters.

Ok-Just got in from Church and HAD to read the posts. So much knowledge and encouragement here.

I have lots of blackstrap molasses that I can give him. If I gave 5 cc's of it a day would that be sufficient? In addition to the Red Cell?

How about Karo Syrup? Or Maple Syrup? I have some of those too. I do have lots of the clear Karo. Guess I was going to use it for candy at one point? I also found a bottle of Dark Karo that looks mouldy on the top. Can that be scraped off and used safely? This is not the thread I know to post that question but am curious as it is almost a full jar. Maybe put the molasses over his corn,feed and alfalfa? Even put some of the loose minerals in his dish and the molasses over it all?

Going to go excercise Warrior and put all of the other bucks out to pasture for awhile in the sunshine. The other bucks want to see what is going on and they can be a pest at times. Warrior's son is the exception and pretty good manners and understands "no" real good. The wether is the exception. He can be such a pest. I wish he was not a wether as he is the Chamoise color-tan-black white? I have a three does of the same coloring that would be great to breed with him. But maybe next year will look better and I can find a nice buck of that coloring. Warrior is the black and white Alpine-registered-and I have his daughter(twin to the little buck) and had hoped that I could get some does to breed to Warrior in that coloring. Warrior bred last year and is such a gentleman at it. Time will tell if I can keep the farm even. The Lord has been good.

As a "side bar" to things. And maybe some venting a little. I have had my mom's car up for sale off and on for awhile and luckily it sold yesterday-end of feed and end of hay. An answer to my prayers. So this sale will help greatly. A man had responded to the ad awhile back and ended up wanting me to go to dinner with him. ( I was feeling sooo low and sooo old and sooo unwanted that I was mildly surprised by the invitation which I respectfully declined). Well-he called me yesterday and asked me again to go out with him. Which I again respectfully declined as I am still legally married-even though I have been served with divorce papers I am still married until that issue is settled. But it did make me feel that at least I was still attractive to someone at my age.)will be 61 in a few months)

I still feel that I can make a go of it here as I firmly believe in the self-sufficient lifestyle even though the DH has stated that he does not want to live this way-too old-fashioned for him-and too labor intensive for an unmotivated person to deal with. It is such a shame as I know what can be done and what can be saved in the economics of a household and a family. Anyway-any ideas, support and encouragement along those lines is greatly appreciated by all and re-direct me to an appropriate forum for those ideas and encouragement. And of course any and all prayers are welcome-for all of us-the animals here, myself and even for DH that he gets his head on straight after 31 yrs. of marriage. I try to keep many of you as I read the posts that have problems with their animals and their farm life in my thoughts and prayers daily. Sorry if I have offended anyone for posting this here.

I'd maybe do the molasses but not the others.

He's still losing weight? Wonder why that is.

Add some fat to his diet. Is he getting the sunflower seeds you spoke of earlier? If not start them up or maybe a T of veggie oil over his feed.
I'd consider getting some Am Chloride & give it daily if the grains are increased.

Farming is hard work, even harder if you are doing it yourself.

HF

Well I was able to get Warrior up in a sling contraption by myself today. He was trying all he could to get those front legs a working but just still weak in the front end. His head was in a straight line and was not floppy at all. While he was in the sling I exercised his legs and helped him to get them under him or at least to put some weight on them. He sure tried to stand but those front legs cannot hold him well yet. But his back end stayed up the whole time! Both of us were exhausted when done. I had exercised his legs before he went into a sling and I let him down out of the sling when he started grinding his teeth. I felt that he had had enough exercise and was getting stressed over it. Tomorrow we will repeat it.

He had "crawled" out of his area and hut into the sunshine all on his own and that is where I found him after church this A.M. He acted so happy and proud of that. Just totally content and chewing hay.

Is it normal that the toes spread apart when the leg is fully extended in front of him? I will give him some oil tomorrow. Thanks for that idea.

Typically the toes should not seperate like that when standing normal.

However, sometimes they will when they are gripping or different points are on the ground. How is his trim? If the inside is trimmed longer than the outside, they will tend to spread. This is a trick they use in showing to bring the toes together for a good stance if the hoof is less than perfect.

One more thought, it's great he's crawling around to the sunshine, but make sure he can't crawl out in bad/cold/damp weather while you are not there. He could chill easily and maybe not get back inside by himself.
HF

Just checking in to see how you & Warrior are doing today? Hope alls well & he's feeling a bit better & getting stronger!

Yesterday Warrior was trying to get those front feet under him. He got the left leg up ok at a 90 degree and when he tried to bring the right leg up and under him it would drag and just not quiet make it and he would then go down on his knees. He did get up on the left leg and brought the right leg up but it scissored across the front of the left leg and he went back down to his knees. He is just not strong enough yet in the front end. Still excercising his front legs and stretching them several times a day. It is when I flex his front leg out in front of him as he is lying on the ground that the front toes will seperate. When I bring the leg back to under him the toes are back together. When he starts gritting his teeth then I stop for awhile. He gets up on knees and stands on the back legs pretty good now and can stand like that for awhile. When I lift him up in the front-while the back end is up- and try and get those front legs under him he can get them in position with my help but only puts effort into one leg at a time and not both together and not for very long. But he is trying hard to do so and then I think he gets tired and then goes limp in the front end.

His eyelids are still a very very pale pink and his appetite is great. Everything else is looking good. He really likes the molassas alot.

MAn. IF he's the warrior, you're the warrior princess! Haven't anything to add but encouragement. Like many, I check into this thread every day for an update if I can! C'mon warriors!

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Does anyone else think this is starting to sound more like a neurological problem, rather than a strength or muscle contraction problem? Could point back to possible deerworm again. If so, he may just have to relearn how to walk, like someone relearns things after a stroke or brain injury. You sure are doing a great job with him farmerjohn!

FarmerJohn I'm sure this has been ask but is there away you could possibly post a picture of warrior?

Nancy in Ga, I too am leaning toward deerworm. It would explain why Warrior went down suddenly and why he has continued to otherwise eat fine and act bright. It could also explain the weight loss and why I'm concerned he isn't making headway there. I had two experiences w/men. worm and both improved quite quickly because of immediate intervention including the steriod dexamethasone. I've seen it really take a toll in llamas. Some cases of deerworm can take weeks and weeks of therapy to eventually improve, while others go the other way. I am so rooting for Warrior to be a success story.

If it's deerworm he won't gain back the use of his leg/neck area. Therapy isn't going to fix damaged nerves.

If he recovers completely it was worms - he should be further along IMO if this was the case.

He may need a little more time.

HF

Go Warrior!!!!!!!! Go FJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Keep up the good work, both of you!

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Becky