I don't own a goat and no nothing about them. But could he be low in potassium? Potassium loss can cause muscle weakness, I would think if it was low enough he might not be able to use his back legs. Just throwing a thought out there.

Ok-I can start the Iron shots at 3cc's and stop the Red Cell. I have Vit C tablets-will that work if I crush them up and put on some feed? How many pills do I give a day? Thanks for that idea. I have read this board alot and such great help and ideas but when it is one of your own all knowledge goes right out the brain.

The potassium-what kind-where from and how much and how often? Just checked in with vet on the fecals-will have to wait even longer for them to get back to me.

Checked with farm supply stores and no Sulmet liquid. They had pills but did not know if that was the same or not and label stated for cows and hogs I believe.

I love this one vet-his boys were in my 4-H club. Both boys were going to college to become vets. The one boy was the Irish Mascot for Norte Dame. He was killed during spring break with three other classmates coming back from Florida. Was a headon where a guy crossed the median and hit them. So very sad. It has been extremely tough on all family and the community. So dad has scaled back his vet pratice and wll not do just the simple procedures that I would need with castration and dehorning anymore. THe vet in the next county would cost me over 100.00 for the dehorning and the castration plus all of the meds they say they would use so close to 150.00 total. More than I could sell a wether for. Never would do anything else for my goats or my hogs but because we are friends he was doing the feal for me. But they also have emergencies so I would not really expect any phone call until later of the day or so.

Going to go and excercise Warrior again and move him around a little. Thinking of using the half barrell to just sit with him awhile and maybe read a book to him that I want to get finished. Could not hurt. The encouragement from you guys have been great. Throw and all ideas and suggestions at me as I certainly am thankful for them and will try anything.

Would like to shave him down but am concerned with the evening weather as it is now chilly and foggy and damp. What do you think? He has the long hair on his spine and back end. Also was hoping day would be very warm and was thinking of using some soap and water to give him a wet rag "foo foo" bath.

Like I said I don't own goats. I was hoping one of the people on here that does own goats would be able to say yes that could be it, or no goats don't get potassium like that. I'm hoping your goat starts getting better though.

That's a good thought Eyore, but I do think it's narrowed down to Men. Worm or stomach worms.

My thoughts are MW.
HF

Finally got the fecal results but of course after having treated. No sign of any worms-came back negative as well as the rest of the bucks.

I did give 3cc's of the iron tonight along with the other shots. Within an hour Warrior was breathing heavy and was dopy acting. Could there have been a reaction with the other shots? I moved him into their enclosed area-finally just grabbed him by the back legs and dragged him in on new hay and straw. Got him settled and stayed with him for awhile and observed. Just seemed so much more lathargic than normal. After an hour he perked up. Then on an every hour check. Raining now. Washed his blanket and took it out and put over him right from dryer and warm. He was back to old self.

I am thinking of splitting the shots up through the day and to give a little break in all meds entering his system all at one time. I was very concerned that after all of the shots and the way he was acting that he had taken a turn for the worse. Maybe the iron shot caused a hard reaction.

Is the Sulmet pills the same as the liquid?

FarmerJohn,

Did the fecal show he's carrying a load of cocci?
If it did not then don't do the Sulmet!
Your de-worming did not kill the coccidia-only a sulfa med will do that.
I don't know how to make it any more clearer his issue is not Coccidiosis.

If he had a reaction to the Iron shot then that is a good indication he is at his peak level - it should not have been an allergic reaction because iron is pretty basic. His body needs to process the supplemented iron - it will only process it so fast & bring him back from anemia. It takes a long time and overdosing won't help, as is apparently the case.

Warrior needs you to stay focused. It is possible to make matters worse by throwing any old med at him.

Treat him by his symptoms & links provided and in conjunction with the test results you paid for. It's a 3-way check for you.

Of course this is my opinion I'm sure others have theirs and I hope they correct me if I'm not focused.

HF

No bath and no shave :nono:!! I would be afraid that would stress him out even more, and since he can't move around he is likely to catch a chill.

Hang in there, Warrior! And FJ, you need to take care of YOU, too, ok? :)

My dear, it sounds like you're doing everything that you possibly can right now. I would just keep him warm and dry, and keep doing what you can for him. He may just need time now to get himself back togeather. Your great support that you're giving him will give him his chance to make it. Don't wear yourself out in the process.

I then will not do the bath and shave.

Do I still give the iron shots though? 3cc's everyday? OR switch back to the Red Cell?

Fecals came back negative on all bucks. I did not think that it would show anything anyway as to all of the meds in Warrior as well as the Ivermec and Quest in the other bucks. But it is a good starting point for the future.

I don't think it is Cocci either but wanted to try and cover all bases I guess.

Thanks eveyone for the support of Warrior and for me. I am very thankful that every time I check on him that he is still here.

Do I stop all of the meds tomorrow as that is the 10th day? Or do I continue all until he is on his feet? He gets Ivermec @5cc's, B Complex @ 8cc's, LA200@ 5cc's, The Iron shot yesterday for the first time @ 3cc's, No Red Cell doasage yesterday due to the iron shot but was @ 5cc's, Banimine @ 1.25cc's, ProBios, Yogurt, Alfalfa soaked in water, hay and straw and greens.

Unless I was sure he had cocci I would NOT give him sulmet. The last thing he needs is to have his rumen messed up with sulmet. As long as his berries are fine he probably doesn't have cocci. Keeping the rumen functioning is critical to his survival.

Good Luck!

Why are you still giving Ivermec? It is only a 1 dose, wait 10 days, then another dose. The B is ok to continue with. If he doesn't have a fever, then you may want to stop the antibiotic. Banamine should only be used for 5 days, after that you run the risk of ulcers.
I think what you have is a goat who was very anemic caused by whatever worm you had. According to the fecal, your worm is gone. The anemia takes weeks to get over. Let him rest. Sometimes you can cause problems by giving meds. You are doing great supportive care with the probiotics

Mpete she is treating for Men. Worm. Your dosage is to break the cycle for stomach worms. Big difference.

I would stick with RedCell, being you reported a reaction from the shot.

No Sulmet.

The Banamine should have been stopped on day 3.

Stop the Ivermec. I wouldn't have given the Quest because Ivm still works here - left that to owners in other parts of the country. I would stop it if you are using it.

Stop the LA200.

Until his is on his feet:

B-complex and Red Cell I feel is a must for support & recouperation from Anemia.

Probios & Yogurt do the same thing. Neither will hurt but will ensure the right bacteria remain in the gut. Probios is better & probably cheaper.

Alphalfa for retaining his weight, water, hay. Spinach, green non-toxic leaves, grass is a good idea for greenery. I would rely on Red-cell for the iron purpose (because I'm cheap & wouldn't buy spinach for a goat).

Your next preparation should be to ensure you have meds on hand for pneumonia. When a goat is down it often presents itself.

I still don't feel as though your buck will recouperate. Stranger things have happened though. He apparently is not suffering so no harm done I suppose.
Kudos to you, FarmerJohn, for keeping at it. I understand your desperation to save him, your frustration at no improvement, and your fear of letting go. I keep hoping I'm wrong for Warriors sake.

HF

And what meds do I want for the pneumonia? What dosage and how often? No sign of it yet but I am not sure that I would have the meds in my medicine chest at this time. I try to keep a well stocked medicine chest for the goats. Never know when I might need something or a friend calls and needs help or meds or even if the store would be out when I need something.

So tonight he will get Red Cell, B Complex and Probios. Alfalfa, hay and greens and plenty of water.

Aww, I am so rooting for you guys!

If you havn't given the RedCell I think I would skip a day. His reaction to the iron shot kinda bothers me. I don' know. Think I'd continue R.Cell tomorrow at 3-4 cc, half what he's on now. Are his eyes pinking up any?

Keep him moving like you have been. Excercize him like you've mentioned. If you think he's feeling stronger in the neck area try the sling again- actually that is a real good way to judge if he's improved.

Pneumonia can be tricky. When fever hits If I caught it early I might try Pen @5cc/100#'s 1x a day for 7 days first. Banamine (script) 1cc/100#'s no more than 2 X a day no more than 3 days. IF something was needed after that I would do baby aspirin & Dexamethazone (script) as a substitute.

Some use the LA200 instead of the Pen, because resistance is up in the Pen & it may not be as effective when needed.

If it was undeniably pneumonia with all the full blown symptoms I'd start him right on Nuflor (script) 1xday for 6days @3cc/100#'s. Banamine same as above. This is really what I prefer for pneumonia. It's pricey but good stuff.

People decongestant if needed, 7cc maybe every 6-12 hours, depends on the patient.

Electrolytes if dehydration starts. A stomach tube for if he goes off feed or dehydrates.
And I already mentioned Dexamethazone & baby aspirin should it be needed beyond Banamine useage (not likely).

What I'd do and how I'd treat would depend on the symptoms I see before my eyes at the time.
HF

Warrior is still very alert, eating and drinking well, good rumen acticity and chewing a cud and being just a super sweet heart. He does try to get up but is weaker in the back end than in the front. Follows me well with his head and his eyes. Front and back laegs are excercised and I sort of straddle him and move him around so he is not in one place long. I roll him over on his side and scratch his belly when I excercise the legs, then sit him back up and over on the other side. Tomorrow I will try the half barrell.

One eye lid is turning pinker than the other but is an improvement. I feel so bad for him and that I let this happen to him. He has such a furry back line and long hair there that I just did not see any noticable weight loss on him. And with all of the other issues going on just was not paying that close of attention. I try so hard that all of the animals have the best of care, feed and medicines and most of my mind was just elsewhere. But he still loves me and still gives me hugs and kisses and talks to me. So forgiving.

How is the rest of your herd-bucks & does? I'm assuming all is well since nothing was mentioned but just thought I'd check. You've probably already done this but maybe a hands-on inspection is in order.

Forgot to mention to have a thermometer in your goat kit. Don't forget the batteries or have a spare on hand.

HF

Still pulling for Warrior & you Farmerjohn! Hang in there!

I agree with the medications that HappyFarmer suggested. That's what I'd give right now too. Just the Red Cell, Probios paste daily right now & give him a few days to see if there's any improvement in eye lid color, etc.

Keep moving him around a few times a day & goat physical therapy on his legs like you've been doing.

Your both real troopers & I bet Warrior really looks forward to you being with him. He'd probly like you to set awhile with him a finish your book. Might do you both good!

The rest of the herd has been all physically checked. No lumps or bumps-no knee swelling-no unusually skin or hair problems. Eyes all look good and pink. Good appetites on them and rumen activity and cud chewing. No gritting of teeth from anyone. Temps all ok. I do need to trim a scur horn on one doe and need to do the shoes on all.

I have a regular animal thermometer in the goat kit. a drenching tube and really most anything that everyone here on the board has suggested that was needed for goat care.

Warrior enjoys my company as do all the goats. They provide such a peaceful serenity and have such a "grace" about them that is unmatched in most other animals. They certainly have a way of calming the soul.

I do not think I will breed this fall though. I do not breed particularly for the 4-H babies but more for herd increasing and for milk production. I have 3 Nubian girls and 5 Alpine girls. No Niggies anymore-a Nubian buck, 2 Alpine bucks and an Alpine wether. I just got an approval on a state program to reimburse me for fencing off the rest of the acreage and would like to do that with rotational areas. So we will see.

What treats does eveyone give their goats? I have noticed that when I had the Niggies they went crazy over animal crackers. The Nubians and the Alpines just turn their nose u at them.

Mine all love the animal crackers, dinner roles from the resturaunt I work at, I bring them home when folks don't eat them. They also love grapes, a cut up apple or pear too.

Raisins...my guys would even get wet for raisins.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, otter pops in summer, raisins, bananas w/ the peel (good to hide meds in), vitamin c chewables, corn chips, marshmallows. Basically anything in your hand including cotton balls, gloves, or instructions for your new weed whacker. Its all a yummy snack in a goats mind.

So glad hes still hanging in there for you. I know how hard it is to see this but he has great care and someone who truly loves him.

Ours love love love santitas chips, fruit loops (everyone loves them the off brand the best), raisins (not everyone likes them though) bread with a couple of them. and only one likes peanut butter.

:goodjob: LOL! You forgot...shoelaces and sweatshirts.

I'm so sorry he's sick! Praying for him and you here. I hope he is better soon. Our vet says pen. for the pnemonia @ 3-5cc per 100 #'s.

Went to give Warrior his meds for this evening and he was trying to get up! He was getting his back legs up under him and pushing to get up but is not quiet making it. He was able to raise his back end about 4"-6" off the ground and then he would go back down and try again. He was shoving himself forward at the same time trying to get the front legs up and out to push with but just can't quiet make it. I sat with him awhile and exercised his legs. Then I think most of his energy was spent. But he was making a real effort to stand. I gave him the Red Cell (4cc's) and the Probios for tonight. Both eye lids are now a pale pale pink color. Also gave him his hay, fresh water, goat feed and fresh greens. Tomorrow I will put him up over the half barrell again and see how he does. Still is very hungry and has great appetite and drinks alot of water and eager to interact with me.

Yeah Warrior! You know he wouldn't still be alive without all of your care. He is lucky to have you.

Oh My Gosh! That is so great! I've been watching all of the developments anxiously. Goats are amazing. I hope he makes a full recovery.

Oh that brought tears to my eyes. I hope he keeps getting better.

Great job farmerjohn! Keep doing what your doing! It looks like things are going to turn out good for Warrior, bless your heart & thank goodness he's doing some better. It may still take awhile to get him back to normal but it sounds like he may be on his way!

Later today I would put something yummy just out of his reach to see if he has just a little bit more motivation!! If he pushes himself to it, all the better excercise!

Come on, little fellow!

Woohoo! Go Warrior! Go Farmerjohn!

:goodjob:

Wonderful progress!!! :) :)

Oh, good for him!!!!!!! Sometimes if they can get their back end up, you can sort of lift on the front and they can stand.

Poor Warrior. If he could just get the front and the back coordinated together I think he just might do it. Put feed out in front of hiim and his water-had to move it further out-he sure has a long neck. He got his front legs-with help under him-and pushed up-but no go on the back end. I helped on the back end and got his back end up but one leg worked but the other did not. So I just rolled him and flexed his legs and tried again. Front legs pushing up but back end just sat there. I think he may have forgotten how to coordinate everything. If I let go of holding him up under his front legs he just slowly sinks down. I will have help tomorrow and we are going to try the sling again. His head seems to be staying in a stright line and is not flopping off to the side as far or as fast. It was like looking at a wet dishrag trying to be straight last week.

Eyes are still pink but look to me as if they have darkened just a little. At least the entire bottom lid is now an even pink color in both eyes. I will be happy with an even pale pink in both eyes at this point. Everything else is good-apetite, drinking water, chewing cud, temp. and alfalfa cubes in water he will crawl for. Gave everyone fresh greens tonight so all are in goat spoiled heaven. Will entice him tomorrow with the raisins I got.

This is encouraging news.

What's the status of his past feedings? What I'm looking for is if he has had grain in the past and/or if he has had ammonium chloride routinely.

Since he has no rumen issues, I'd try giving him something for energy - like cracked corn. SMALL amounts though. He's not moving a lot so keep it under a handful a day-maybe split in 2 feedings. If he's had ammonia chloride and/or no grain for most of his life he won't be prone to UC issues for the next few weeks while you try to get him on his feet. If he's had no prevention for UC I'd be hesitant at this time to give corn, but rather seek other energy sources. It's important that he is eating roughage if you do this-roughage meaning long-stemmed hay or long-stemmed grasses they will help with digestion as it should. Stay away from any sweetfeed. And don't use various sources - stick to one. you don't need to induce rumen issues. Keep up the probios.

I'd try it and see if it helps him over the hump, but I'd also discontinue it after a few days to a week if it doesn't help or he's not eating his hay or he is still down after that.

HF
ps I wouldn't make him work too hard for his treats or food right now.

Come on, Warrior...we need some goat good news around here!!

Right on warrior keep up the good work sweetie.

Warrior is working at it! Got his back end up with my help and his legs were trying to get coordinated to push. On his own he got his back legs under him and pushed up-feet still kind of going in a "tapping pattern" until they got in cinc(sp) and then he pushed up a bit and then relaxed. We did this together several times. Right leg seems a little weaker yet. Then I went to the front end and lifted him up behind his front legs and the front legs tried to push up and were not quiet in cinc(sp) but got two good pushes where he raised his front on his own. His head seems alot stronger too. He can get his back legs under him enough to sort of raise himself and "scoot" over. I was watching him today and that must be how he can turn a full 180 around. Gave him a handful of corn, his alfalfa soaked cubes, hay and water. Held off on the Red Cell and Probios for tonight. Will do every other day. All other signs good, eyes still showing even pale pink coloring and a great apetite. My help to get him in a sling today cannot make it so will try tomorrow.

I have always fed hay, grasses and goat pellet feed and occassionally cracked corn. Alfalfa cubes and sunflower seeds daily. I have never given the ammonia chloride though. I was thinking that was only if you gave grains for every feeding. I can get this at a feed store? Is this different than minerals? Do I want to start in with any free choice mineral or forgo the minerals for awhile? Get some ammonia chloride and start giving now? And if so how much and how often?

Why not sweet feed? I know that somewhere on the forum it was stated that there is little nutritional benifit to it. Was I correct in that or is there another issue with it?

Thanks everyone for your knowledge and care and concern. Warrior and I both appreciate it. But he had better hurry up and use those feet as even in his current condition he is still heavy and in being somewhat disabled myself, he puts a strain on my back and hip. Will have to give us both asprin!

Farmerjohn,

My only concern is inducing acidiosis or UC now when he is at his weakest. I have fed sweet feed for over 5 years in the past, and have been feeding cracked corn for several years now. No issues whatsoever. We switched to bulk because we grew so big and it was expensive plus we had too many feedstore trips. Now we mix our own & offer minerals by various methods. Others swear the molasses will cause acidiosis but in a healthy goat it's not likely unless overfed.

Anywho, my concern is that he's not moving much, so it isn't helping his digestion, plus you wouldn't want him to get any more excess gas that he may not be able to expel, or develop UC (because it may have been building up all this time if you fed grain). I would just be very careful what you add to his diet at this time, yet I feel he may need the extra energy, he been weak for about 2 weeks now. You want to build him back up without causing any issues.

It doesn't sound like he's a candidate for UC - if he were mine I would start the corn without reservation. I would not start the AM Chl, no red flags are going up for me, and again we don't want to upset the apple cart if we don't have to. AM Chl can be bought at Jeffers Livestock I believe-it's cheap insurance if you feed a lot of grain to wethers & bucks, I think it's like a tsp a day or close to it. We fed it at one time but no longer, but that is just us.

I'd offer him loose minerals. Don't skip the probios for all the same reasons stated above.

I'm just thinking this through here....and I think I'd take it slow.

HF