Need Help/Advice once again
 

I have a 4 month old goat that seems very healthy except for the fact that if she gets knocked down she can't get up. I've had to remove her from the rest of the herd because they plow right over her and then she just lays there until someone shows up to sit her back up. Once I turn her back over and put her on her feet she'll roam all over the place and act like nothing happened. This has been going on for about 10 days She had worms (strongyles) which we cleared up, but perhaps she's anemic? The pink is returning to her eyelids . My DH called the vet and he suggested thiamine (not sure why) so I've finished giving her the recommended dosage and nothing has changed. She is definitely weak in the front legs because if she trips on a small dip in the yard she goes down and again doesn't get up. I've also given her Bose and wonder if I should give her more. I gave her 1/2cc 10 days ago. She has no fever, good appetite, no obvious injury.

"Wish I could be of help, but I hope your little one is better soon. I am really curious as to what this is as well. Please keep us informed.

I wonder if she has a slipped disk or something...she might need rest. IDK! I wish I could help. Banamine???

I'd get a fecal, cocci can make a young goat stumbly before it makes them dead. The vet may have suspected a thiamine deficiency, which doesn't always present as polio - it does have a "lag period" before it become illness. Could be early stage or a slight case of listeriosis too. A lot of times a goat will get weak before it gets so sick that it's too late. Treating her with fortified B and antibiotics won't hurt her.

We've done several fecals on her over the past few weeks to make sure the strongyles were gone. The last two have been clean.

For some reason I googled joint ill to see what the symptoms are of that. She mimics some of them, but the most disturbing thing was that it cross referenced to Mycoplasma :hammer: . This didn't seem to be the same Mycoplasma haemolama that wiped out 1/3 of my alpaca herd over the past couple of months, but just seeing the word mycoplasma freaked me out. So, she is now on LA200 for precaution. She has finished her thiamine prescription and she is still falling down. She is strong enough that she walked around the yard for 3 hours, but when she fell down she couldn't get up. Again, she only falls down if the other goats push her or she stumbles in a dip in the ground. She doesn't seem weak in body, just weak in the front legs. I just don't understand.

Thankfully she doesn't appear to be in any pain, so I haven't given banamine.

thanks! I'll keep ya posted :)

Can you rule out enterotoxemia? Has she had her required CDT's? I've seen that cause stumbles too.

I know she had the first booster. I honestly don't remember giving the 2nd. Sometimes DH tries to "help me out" and will give shots, etc without telling me. Will it hurt to give her another CDT even if it turns out she had two of them a couple of months ago? And could entero last this long without killing them? She seems normal, happy and healthy except when she falls down and can't get up. I've lost so many animals this summer that I know the signs of distress. She's not displaying them at all.

Another CD & T won't hurt her if she's already had them but I'm not sure if there needs to be a certain amount of time between the 1st one & the booster for it to work properly, usually I know it's 21 days apart between the 2 but a few days or a week isn't going to make a difference I just don't know if a couple months does.
Then after that they just get the one per year.

I sure wish I had some advice or could help Jill, you've had such a terrible few months it seems like it's one thing after another for you. Sending hugs & hoping the things your trying now brings your little doe around.

Thanks Katie! Things seem to be getting better (knocking on wood). We haven't lost an alpaca in over 3 weeks. The longest we went before between deaths was 11 days. I believe the last one that died was probably the MH carrier. It's just a hunch or gut feeling, but sometimes that's all you have to go on. She came from a farm that had this disease previously (we didn't know at the time of purchase). She probably got it, but didn't display the symptoms. She gave birth on June 16 this summer. The cria had to be put down on the 20th. She became very upset and depressed when she couldn't find him :( and two weeks later began the horrible turn of events. We knew she was sick with it, but just kept babying and treating her and when all the ones around her were dying we thought maybe she was going to make it. She finally gave up the fight about 3 weeks ago and I told DH I felt like she started it and now she's ended it. We lost some beautiful and sweet animals and they will definitely be missed. I pray we never have to go through something like this ever again!

So it won't hurt to just start over on the cdt or do you think I should try the antitoxin instead?

If you have antitoxin, start her on that. It won't hurt her. Stumbling and falling down are not normal. Something is going on, making her weak.

Jyliie I was thinking Mycoplasma haemolama when I read this. Mom had it sweep through her kid goat about two months ago. Hope its not that but might want to take her in and see what the vet thinks.

Well, since I lost 8 alpacas to this over the past 2 months, I'm treating her for it just in case. Did your mom lose any goats or was she able to treat and save them? This disease is horrible! We had heard conflicting stories whether or not it can pass from alpacas to goats. I'm still not sure this is what my little doeling has, but she's getting treated for it anyway :)

I have it and I'll give her some :)

Well it can pass from Llama to goats. So I don't know why it wouldn't pass from Alpaca to a goat. She lost one little guy but the rest she saved. Good luck sweetie I know its been a hard few months for you.

It's pretty bad when you see pale membranes and pray that it's worms. Pale/white membranes with MH means impending death and there's nothing you can do to save them. She has a tint of pink and definitely did have stomach worms, so hopefully she can make a full recovery. Even if it is MH, the pink tint is a good sign :)

I'm sorry your mom lost one :(

I've never even heard of Mycoplasma haemolama; so will need to google it. Mind telling what method was used by your mom to successfully treat it?

I'm curious to see if her treatment was different than mine. We treated with 4.5cc/100lbs of LA200.

Tons of la 200 and lots and lots of tlc. She had a kitchen er. I'm not sure the dose jill but yep same treatment. Actually you posting what happened to your alpacas is what saved her babies.

You don't know how good this makes me feel that something I "said" may have helped save someone else's critters :) . This was the whole reason I decided to share it here on the goat board...to hopefully make people aware of MH.

Maybe even the meningeal worm. . .maybe?

We are very thankful you did.

I didn't think about this and it's definitely a possibility. When I wormed her for strongyles, she got valbazen and 10 days later I gave Ivomec Plus. I did some reading up on this after you commented and she could be one that just has mild symptoms right now. I really don't know the proper way to treat for this so if anyone knows more about this please chime in :)

Meningeal Worm Treatment
 

I'm really thinking this little gal could have meningeal worm. White tail deer are plentiful around here although they can't get IN with the goats they graze within 20 feet of them. I gave her Ivomec plus today, but didn't realize it should be via injection and not orally. Should I give her another dose tomorrow? I also gave her some banimine to be on the safe side. I read this would be good to keep swelling down. Again...she doesn't seem uncomfortable at all and is a happy little thing. The weakness in her legs is leading me to believe it's MW and also the fact that the thiamine didn't seem to help.

I really hope she gets better for you!

Thank You! She actually seems better this morning. Her legs seem stronger.

Hang in there, Jill. We're all rooting for you and your baby.

I am learning so much and although I wish you didn't have to go through this, I appreciate your posting your terrible ordeal because of what we may all glean from it. I realize just how ignorant I am whenever I come on here and see one more thing that I don't know. But it is good and humbling to be here. I will pray your little one continues to make progress, I imaging she is going to be one spoiled baby when all is said and done.

I'd agree with that and it also could be the beginnings of tetanus but I'd have thought if it was tetanus it would be worse by now.

She actually seems worse today :( . When I got home from work she must have stumbled and was laying sideways with her head nice and crooked. When I sat her back up onto her feet she was very wobbly. She's been standing up grazing, but seems to lean towards one way or the other when she walks. I really don't know the correct way to treat for meningeal worm. I trust this board's advice more than an internet search (or even a vet most of the time). I gave her LA200 (just in case of MH), ivomec plus, and some banamine when I got home. Her appetite is still good and rumen function is good. If it's meningeal I've read that recovery could take awhile so I guess we just keep chugging along.

I am so sorry she is doing worse. If I was you I would keep on giving her LA200 since you already know you have MH on your farm. Also I would be giving her the banamine too. I believe (dont quote me though) Ivomec Plus is for the meningeal worms but I was told you would see improvement within a few days. If it was my goat I would also give her some bounce back since she was (assuming) laying out in the heat and I would bring her inside until she was better. Have you taken her temp? We are praying for her and you. ((((HUGS))))

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like I'm doing just about all of this except for the bounce back. Ever since she started falling, she stays in an XL wire dog crate which I keep under a roof/sides open shelter. So luckily she wasn't laying out in the sun. I do have some nutri-drench and I forget to use it most of the time. I think I'll go give her some :) . She's been up on her feet walking for 3 hours now so I really think she just layed there too long in one position and was stiff when I first turned her out to pasture. Donna, did your mom give the goats the LA200 every day or every other? For the alpacas we were instructed every other day, but now looking back on it I wish we had done every day. I know it can interfer with rumen function so maybe that's why the every other day was recommended. Would you suggest probios in addition to the rest of what I'm giving her?

ETA: I'm not giving up on this little girl :)

Still praying.

Thanks!

No prob. I just put one out there for you and the little one.

I know it was at the very least once a day if not twice... for some reason I was thinking twice but that could of been something else she was telling me about. When I talk to her tonight I will ask her and get the dose she was giving. I give probios anytime they have any kind of meds. You are a good goat mommy dont forget that... sometimes crap just happens but until she is ready to give up we all are here for you. :grouphug:

If ever hard work can save a goat, your goat should live!

The Little Princess
 

Not the best pic of her, but she refused to lift her head up anymore...too busy eating :)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...DSCF2017-1.jpg