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How To Dry Off A Doe??
I have an 18 month old doe that I bought at MunchinHill a few months ago. I think the lady said she was accidentally bred too early by jumping in with the buck. She delivered ok, healthy kids which the previous owner retained. And then she put Providence up for sale and I bought her. Well, she was underweight when I bought her and she was in milk and giving over a gallon a day when I got her. Shes now giving just under a gallon a day but I don't like milking her when she is obviously thin.
Looking forward, I'm not willing to breed her until she is sleek and in good condition. I have tried to put weight on her but everything I feed her just goes into milk so I'm thinking I need to dry her up, feed her up and then breed her maybe late Fall for Spring kids. Somebody with more experience than me please chime in here if you will, and give opinions on what to do here. AND I really need advice on how to dry her up without causing some kind of metabolic issue which TERRIFIES me. She is such a pet, the milk is just a side benefit. I don't want to lose my baby!! Thank you for helping. |
Keep milking her, but cut her to once a day. Add beet pulp to her ration, slowly.
What is here feed ration made up of now? Some folks also use rice bran (?), I think. Someone chime in here. She's better off milking and slowly recovering than being dried off. |
Alice she has free choice alfalfa pellets, 16% grain mix w/molasses in it, and local cut hay which is mostly grass. Minerals also. Plus browse which is not real great. And treats from the house like carrots and apples.
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I think you might have trouble drying her off.
If you milk her through without breeding this year, I think you'll be surprised at how much she grows and fills out. I did that with a yearling that kidded last April. I'm still milking her and she looks absolutely fabulous! |
I also wormed her this morning with Safeguard.
OK.... 1. Milk once daily 2. Add beet pulp 3. Wait a year? to breed Should her grain still be free choice? |
How long do I need to dump the milk with Safeguard?
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Safeguard is not the best wormer. Try cydectin
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prairiedog... how long should I wait since I already used the Safeguard? It was what the former owner recommended...?
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I do safegaurd for 3 days in a row at a very strong dose. It has worked for me. Then follow up later with some cydectin. I try and feed grain without mollases and I add a little corn oil to the grain for added fat.
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ok...
I did the Safeguard at 4x the by weight dose. Won't she be overdosed by 3 days in a row??? |
The problem is that Safeguard is very safe, in that the worms are mostly immune to it. Doesn't hurt the goat. Mostly doesn't hurt the worms, either.
The BEST thing would be to take a very fresh fecal sample to a vet and have it checked. That way, you'd know if she needs to be dewormed. What color is the inside of the bottom eyelid? If pale, she most likely needs dewormed with an effective dewormer. |
She does look a little pale to me. Can I go ahead and worm now with the Cydectin?
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I would.
1 cc per each 10 pounds. Withdrawal time for milk is not established for goats. My rule of thumb is at least three days. |
Alice, How do you know the safegaurd doesn't work? Did it stop working for you or are you going on what others have told you? And if it stopped working for you how were you using? Dose x how many days?
It worked for me and I like it cause it does have such a saftey margine. I fecaled before and after treatment. Maybe the worms my does have are not the super worms that are even immune to cydectine like some have. I do also use cydectin and ivermectin, but safegaurd too. Safegaurd is more expensive for me to buy then cydectin, but I feel like I can give the doe a high enough dose to take care of the worms and not have it kill my doe. And I'm not being snarky I was just wondering it is something that was a problem for you (the safegaurd not working) or if it was second hand info? I wanted to add that some worms are now getting immune to cydectin from what I have heard, but there is another wormer that is spossed to work. Does anybody know what that dewormer is or has anybody heard anything about it? |
Actually, it's a good question. (or group of questions)
I only use Safeguard for tapeworms in kids. Works great. :) If you read much on the goat boards that have professionals on them (people who have dairies, people who show, people who breed for dairies), you will find them just about unanimous in their comments about Safeguard. My veterinarian in Missouri is a semi-retired bovine lactation expert, and he agrees. He is also concerned about the increasing immunity of the worms to the other dewormers and is recommending double doses on some and using more than one dewormer at a time. We ALL are concerned about the immunity problem. You can also talk to the parasitologist at the University of Tennessee if you have doubts. :) Here's her contact info: Dr. Sharon Patton Distinguished Service Professor of Parasitology Director, Diagnostic Parasitology Service University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine Department of Comparative medicine, Room A233 2407 River Drive Knoxville, Tennessee 37996-4543 spatton@utk.edu Or, you can purchase this book: http://www.amazon.com/Sheep-Goat-Med.../dp/0721690521 I have it at home, and I'd quote it for you, but I'm four hours from there, and I won't be back till the weekend. |
Articles that make reference to the "white" family of dewormers and ineffectiveness:
http://sheepandgoat.com/articles/IPM.html http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/exte...t/MGWormer.htm http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extm...S/AS-573-W.pdf |
I brought home a skinny, copper deficient, parasite overloaded doe....who was also pregnant (had triplets in March) !
Dewormed with Quest Horse Gel (1cc per 100lbs- same drug as Cydectin) & repeated in 10 days. Added rice bran to her milkstand grain (worked up gradually to 1 1/4 cups twice a day) & started feeding beet pulp shreds. She milked 1 gallon per day, plus nursed a kid 24/7 for about 8 weeks, while also gaining weight. |
How much beet pulp shreds is she eating? Do you give it free choice mixed with her alfalfa pellets or do you mix it with her grain?
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Somebody jump in here... I have NEVER had so many questions before!
If I'm going to go down to milking once a day, I need to know how much of her grain to let her have. Can I still feed her free choice? So far she has been free choice on all of her feeds, the grain, alfalfa pellets, minerals and hay. All available 24/7. PLEASE help me avoid any metabolic illness. I lost a real sweet doe a few years ago to goat polio. I said when she died I'd never have another goat because I couldn't stand to ever see it happen again, but here I am... I just love goats. This time I might be a pest on here asking questions but I'll keep asking til I find the answer! You all just don't know how much I appreciate you taking the time to teach me! Thanks to each of you. |
Email me - please - I can help - you have my email address in PM ;)
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I'd cut her grain by 1/3 if it was me while she's adjusting to milking once a day. Creamers may have a better idea. Hope she shares here as well. :)
P.S. Asking questions to keep goats healthy is not being a pest. |
I just realized you said she has free choice sweet feed. I would stop that immediately. Free choice alfalfa pellets and hay I would continue, but not free choice sweet feed or any other kind of grain.
I have used cheapest-kind cooking oil (canola, I think, can check later if you want) top-dressed on a doe's daily grain ration to add some fat in her diet. You could use sunflower seed oil or wheat germ oil too but they are going to cost a lot more money. She may also not be in as bad a condition as you think. Can you post some pictures of her to help people get an idea of her condition? And do ask questions! You are not being a pest, you are trying to help your goat. :) -Sonja |
Its not that I think shes in bad condition right now, its that I think she is very slowly losing a little weight. Her back and hips have thinned, despite being wormed and having all she wants to eat. For the last week, she tries to avoid being milked out completely. All those things made me wonder if thats her body telling me I need to do something differently. I just want to catch whatevers going on now rather than her getting down later. Just want to be a good goat mommy.
I posted a pic of her on here when I first got her, I'll get a couple more tomorrow and post. |
Never a pest...... I'd rather ask 500 questions, than guess.
I would not feed grain free choice....dangerous. I feed minerals, grass hay & alfalfa pellets free choice. I take out 3lbs of milk stand grain in the morning. I pour it all in the feeder, milk the mini (doesn't take long & she eats about 1/4 of the grain....she's chubby & doesn't need much), then put my once thin girl on the stand...... I have beet pulp mixed in with the milk stand grain, but I dump an extra cup of beet pulp shreds & her rice bran.... milk, leave her on the stand while I fill alfalfa pellet feeders for the others, then turn her loose & let her kid clean up what she doesn't eat (she usually eats 1 1/2lbs of the grain, plus her rice bran & extra beet pulp added on top). |
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She is pretty and not as bad as i thought she would be
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She said that is when she first got her and she as been loosing weight since this pic was taken a few months ago. She is pretty :)
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Aww she's a pretty girl.....Doesn't look as bad as I was expecting either.
I'm thinking a good round of deworming with something other than a white wormer, & perhaps some beet pulp, rice bran or both & she'll be just fine. Have you copper bolused her? If not & she were mine I'd do that & give her a shot of Bo-Se. I've been told by goat people I trust not to dry them up too early....especially FF.... Something along the lines of it sets their lactations....As in if you dry a doe up 5 months into her lactation, the next freshening it may be harder to keep her in milk for the typical 10 months as her body may decide to do a repeat of last freshening & dry up early.. Not a clue how accurate that is.....and I'm sure there are folks who have dried up early & had lengthy freshings in the future, so don't quote me on that, but it sounded reasonable & the person who told me has far more expirence than I do, so I listened, lol. |
She actually still looks almost like that. She still has lots of energy to chase my chickens around and follow me around. Maybe I'm just not describing her accurately? Well, tomorrow I'll get some up to date pics posted and then you can make your own judgments!
OK... who is selling copper boluses on here? I need to make an order!!! |
Cannon Farms & Southerngurl (Ashley) both sell boluses & are fair priced. :)
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if shes a high producer they sometimes get bony looking. I know first hand because no matter what you feed my Saanen she never looks filled out on the top, but they have a bigger gut area where they hold their weight. My Saanen will do almost two gallons a day or better.
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