The neighbors from the city

mary,tx · #21 06/27/11, 01:08 PM

Other dogs might be more likely to bite, but when you read about people getting killed by a dog, it's not the dachshunds or cocker spaniels that did it. And always, always the owner says, oh, they were the perfect dogs, never ever would have dreamed they would have attacked like that.

LoneStrChic23 · #22 06/27/11, 01:36 PM

My husbands breed of choice is Weimaraners......he introduced me to them & they are great for teaching yourself patience

The puppy we raised & socialized like crazy took years to "convince" not to kill chickens...despite being socialized around them.....He never was 100% trustworthy. In contrast the 2 year old Weim we adopted from the animal shelter never once tried to mess with livestock & was trustworthy until the day he died....The variation in temperments can be vast even within a single breed so one must chose a dog based on the individual, not just the breed.

I'm on a waiting list for another Dane puppy (its been 3 years....) & the breeder has the litter screened periodically & places puppies according to temperment & what purpose/environment they will be going to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

My guess? They decided just the day before they wanted goats, responded to the first CL ad with goats, and did no prior research. Goats eat grass, of course, so they didn't need to buy feed or 'nothin! A little birdie probably also told them that 'dogs' can protect livestock. So they went and got a 'protective' looking breed - a pitt! Makes perfect sense!

I wouldn't bring a pitt home and expect it to guard. Nor would I expect it to slaughter any more than any other high drive breeds. There are many breeds bred to have 'high drive' or 'prey drive' and even though a beagle is bred to hunt rabbits, they generally chase and kill anything that runs away - FOR EXAMPLE. We keep two hunting dogs - a weimaraner and a german shorthair. The weimaraner killed chickens for 2 years, till my dad 'convinced' him not to. He hasn't touched them for about 6 years now. The german shorhair hasn't ever even considered harassing any poultry but the guineas at first, which seem to look/smell game - but they were easily taught that they were SUPPOSED to be there.

So, no hard fast rule on breeds killing IMO - you just hear about Pitts doing it more often because of media sensation. I would NOT say that a pitt will protect the goats in particular, nor would I say my weim or my GSP would. But that doesn't mean that they'll slaughter them either. My weim about licks baby goats to death, though. He gets about as excited as I do with new babies.

CaliannG · #23 06/27/11, 01:44 PM

The owners of dogs that have attacked humans HAVE to say "Oh, they were perfect dogs, never hurt a fly before" for a couple of reasons:

1. They really are complete idiots who were totally ignorant of all the signs of aggression.
2. They are smart enough to say that so they don't get dragged into court for having a known aggressive dog.

As it is, Pits, American Staffordshire Terrier, etc., have been badly bred for the last 30 years and no amount of "ALL of them aren't LIKE that!" is going to change the fact that they have been the most favored fighting dog of the last 40 years and therefore have had a LOT of their numbers bred for aggression, especially animal aggression.

Would I trust a Dalmatian in my goats pen any more than a Pit? Nope. And that is not saying anything good or bad about either breed. And size does matter. An insane dachshund simply does not have the size, weight, and power to be a severe threat to a healthy, adult human (exceptions always happen...I am not counting a guy asleep on the couch whose pet jumps up and rips his throat out and he never missed a snore, okay?). An insane Pit Bull *does*.

I had a WONDERFUL, sweet, darling, Boston Terrier who snuggled with pet bunnies, licked my son's pet cockateil, and was about as much of a threat to small animals as your average stuffed toy. Does that mean I should go out and get a Boston Terrier to babysit little parrots? No. They were bred to HUNT small animals, and as miniature pit fighters, and are therefore dangerous to little critters. *I* had the exception, not the rule.

Fowler, your neighbors are idiots if they won't take advice. Tell them ~I~ said so. "By the way, this goat lady I know down southerly way says you are morons because you don't research and don't listen. She asked me to pass that on to you." Then go check your fencing to make sure their goats and their dog cannot get anywhere near your Babydolls.

You do not get a Pit Bull to guard goats, and you don't get an Anatolian Shepherd to retrieve ducks. I am willing to bet that the guy in this equation wanted some sort of macho dog and convinced his wife that it could be used to guard the goats.

Machismo is the leading cause of animal cruelty in the world.

**mygoat** · #24 06/27/11, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

My husbands breed of choice is Weimaraners......he introduced me to them & they are great for teaching yourself patience

The puppy we raised & socialized like crazy took years to "convince" not to kill chickens...despite being socialized around them.....He never was 100% trustworthy. In contrast the 2 year old Weim we adopted from the animal shelter never once tried to mess with livestock & was trustworthy until the day he died....The variation in temperments can be vast even within a single breed so one must chose a dog based on the individual, not just the breed.

I'm on a waiting list for another Dane puppy (its been 3 years....) & the breeder has the litter screened periodically & places puppies according to temperment & what purpose/environment they will be going to...

We've sworn never to get another weim. Amazing, SMART dogs with PERSONALITY - but you're sure right about teaching us patience! The trouble with ours is that he assumes he's smarter than us. We love him to pieces but we don't want to do this to ourselves again in the future, lol. Ours, Popple, is currently 9 years old and has not slowed down a hair.

kirkmcquest · #25 06/27/11, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fowler

Really?...a spelling bee alert?

Sorry...I couldn't stop myself.

Kazahleenah · #26 06/27/11, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirkmcquest

Sorry...I couldn't stop myself.

You did ok.

You passed up correcting the other errors in the post.

DamnearaFarm · #27 06/27/11, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

I worked in dog rescue/rehabilitation for years.....worked in a grooming salon, did fostering, worked in a vet clinic...

Top breeds to bite or have aggression issues were:

1. Dachshund
2. Cocker Spaniel
3. Labs
4. Chows
5. JRT's

I'm not a fan of pitbulls, they don't appeal to me as I'm a Dane fan & prefer leggy giants..but I do not agree that as a breed they are demons....quite opposite.

Media has gone wild with insanities making sensational claims of superioir jaw strength/bite force (that honor actually belongs to the GSD)& and an endless search for blood. They were not BRED for this, sadly a culture of big egos & punks have started selecting for traits a responsible breeder would have culled for.

I don't think this is a breed for beginners & socialization is essential......but I say that exact same thing about many, many breeds. Sadly I think majority of society is too ignorant for proper dog ownership responsibilities.

Things like this are just as common as pitbull attacks.....these just don't sound a menacing or sensational so they don't make headlines:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-Harbour.html

My idiot neighbor has pits......hes training them to be "attack dogs"....hits them, kicks them & encourages rough behavior...it makes me sick. One, a brindle male named "Death" has a bullet here with his name on it the second he steps foot on this property....they've taught him to kill cats, he is highly aggressive & unstable. I have not a doubt in my mind he is a ticking time bomb & when he gets out (its just a matter of time), I know something bad will happen. He's been raised that way & he is better off dead. The other is a blue male....extremely sweet.....He's come over before, doesnt bother chickens, loves kittens (he licked my kittens clean & laid on the porch while they crawled all over him) I've seen them "working on him" he doesn't attack....he crawls on his belly, pees on himself & cries....when he doesnt growl or bite despite goading, they turn the brindle male loose on him...he runs & hides. I've offered to buy him, they wont let me, I've called ASPCA, but have no "proof" of their actions....its their word against mine.... Its sickening the depths of depravity humans sink to, & innocent animals suffer the consequences...Anywho......in regards to a livestock guardian, I think they made a poor choice....bullys tend to be more people orineted & wouldn't be my choice for a livestock guardian.....Honestly from the sound of it, they don't need the livestock or guardians until they study up on the very basics.....Going into any type of animal ownership so blind, especially in the age of the internet & libraries is pure ignorance.

How did they confuse a wether with a doe?? What made them think a pit was a livestock guardian? How in earth did they confuse a pygmy with a Nubian??!!

If I were in your situation, that poor dog would 'disappear' one night.

Poor guy. My brother once had an amstaff who'd been used as bait. His jaw teeth were pulled and he was COVERED in scars. Sweetest dog you'd ever see.

Oat Bucket Farm · #28 06/27/11, 08:45 PM

I would record the guy "working" with the dog, and post it on you tube along with the guy's address.

CaliannG · #29 06/27/11, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

I would record the guy "working" with the dog, and post it on you tube along with the guy's address.

Ditto, ditto, ditto!

Pony · #30 06/27/11, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wags

Pit bulls type dogs are not live stock guardian dogs, but that doesn't mean they are automatically killers that are going to "slaughter" anyone's livestock. Sheesh talk about some clueless comments!

THANK you!

Pony · #31 06/27/11, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary,tx

Other dogs might be more likely to bite, but when you read about people getting killed by a dog, it's not the dachshunds or cocker spaniels that did it. And always, always the owner says, oh, they were the perfect dogs, never ever would have dreamed they would have attacked like that.

If you do the research, you will find that the actually maulings/killings are done by a variety of breeds.

And yes, cockers can and do maul, Golden Retrievers can kill, and not all bully breeds are vicious psychopathic Cujos.

TJN66 · #32 06/27/11, 09:02 PM

Yeah...that dog would dissapear in a heartbeat if it was by me. I agree...record the guy, post it on you tube AND take it to the SPCA.

LoneStrChic23 · #33 06/27/11, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamblinRoseRanc

If I were in your situation, that poor dog would 'disappear' one night.

Poor guy. My brother once had an amstaff who'd been used as bait. His jaw teeth were pulled and he was COVERED in scars. Sweetest dog you'd ever see.

We've tried that one, can't get "Buddy" out because of "Death"

Buddy has come to visit a few times & hides under my porch, but he's not here long before his owner comes looking for him....We've been leaving food out for him at the back of the house hoping to lure him back there so I can bring him inside through the patio door out of sight....So far though we haven't seen him out so we wait..... No video camera so that's not an option.

Buffy in Dallas · #34 06/27/11, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

No video camera so that's not an option.

Borrow one. Surely someone you know has an old one.

beccachow · #35 06/27/11, 11:06 PM

My cousin has two pits, and I am torn on this one. Each one of them has launched themselves (two seperate occasions) across the fence when my FIL had their goat out browsing, and attacked her. Just two weeks ago, a visiting neighbor had a JRT who dug under the goat's pen...and attacked her.

At the same time, the pits live with chickens and a pygmy goat and haven't bothered them at all. If he is raised with them and they are HIS goats, it might all be fine.

They still sound a bit...ummmm...uninformed.

Does your phone have the video option, LSC?

freeb · #36 06/28/11, 01:26 PM

We had an American bull dog, we got him as a pup, he was a drop off. We raised him with the goats and chickens. I wish i had a pic of him sharing his food with the chickens..lol. They would eat out of the same bowl and he wouldn't move he would just keep eating. He protected the goats from my neighbors Boxer dogs that were twice his size. If it wasn't for him our goats would have been all dead. He tried his best to keep them out but they overtook him and got him down and killed him. I have since shot on of the neighbor dogs but now the neighbor takes more responsibility and keeps the other dog locked up!

Jcran · #37 06/28/11, 02:31 PM

I would worry more about the neighbor being the one to train the dog. They don't sound like the sharpest knives in the drawer and the fact that they got duped into buying Nubians in Pygmy clothing says a lot about their animal knowledge. If you have any interaction that is not positive, just DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. Then you have a legal leg to stand on IF (and I hope it never does) you have problems.

CraterCove · #38 06/29/11, 09:16 AM

I have to plunk in my two cents here. The issue is not so much the dog as the owners. I wouldn't trust them to raise a chihuahua properly from the sounds of it.

Be positive, help them. It will be frustrating as all get out but you'll feel better in the long run for helping them learn than from making enemies of them. Most people are well meaning but ignorant.

And introduce them to Cesare Milan :-P

hyamiranda · #39 06/29/11, 03:24 PM

Discussions like this leave me with mixed feelings. Dog breeds have been developed with a purpose in mind and the dogs can't help it if that purpose gets hijacked by crazy people. Just because a dog breed was developed for that purpose doesn't mean that dogs of that breed are going to absolutely behave in that way. Great Pyrenees are livestock guardian dogs, right? So why did my FIL have to shoot three Great Pyrenees for working over his bunch of pigs? Why is a hunting bred dog gun-shy and no good for retrieving? Just like people, animals are individualistic. When it comes to the debate of nature vs. nurture, in animals, nurture often wins out and it's the people to blame, not the animal.

Unfortunately, too often the animal gets the blame instead of it being place on stupid, ignorant people where it belongs. The fact that humans have the ability to reason does not mean that all individuals use that ability and too often it is abused.

We all agree that we have to be careful and smart about our interactions with animals. The question that comes to my mind, is what the heck happened to common sense?