baby goat is going man down- need help
 

The little 7 week old doeling I wrote about is getting worse, the diarrhea is just running out of her. I gave her corid this am. She was wormed yesterday with Safegaurd for goats. I also gave her 150cc of LRS sub Q. She wants to drink but I haven't let her for fear of making it worse. She is not grazing now and she is not bouncing and playing either. She is just laying on the deck in the sun. Her temp is 102. Should I move her inside in a dog crate so she can just rest without and drafts?

I called the vet and he said give her Kaopectate so slow down the diarrhea but it isn't working. He also said give her Pedialyte which obviously he has never tried to get a goat to drink that nasty stuff because she would have none of it.

I need help I do NOT want to lose this baby I Love her like she is my own child. My home number is 360-355-8740 if anyone has any ideas do not hesitate to call me. I will try anything.

thanks
Kris

Safeguard is pretty much not effective.


Edited to add:
I found your other thread. She most likely has severe coccidia. What dose Corrid did you use? It's 6.25 cc per 25 pounds.

Unfortunately, Corrid is *not* quick acting.

Hi Alice,

No I did not. I was "told" that she got the 5 day treatment at her old house but I am thinking that most of what they said is untrue. I do have quest gel for horses but I have no idea how much to give. She is only about 20 pounds.

I'd do the Kaopectate again, and at this point, I'm thinking a small (6 oz?) bottle of milk with yogurt added in. She's got to have nutrition, and the milk will make a curd in her tummy so that there's something normal going on. That's what I would do, but I don't know if it's the RIGHT thing to do.

I fear that the coccidia have really overwhelmed her system.

How long ago did she get the kaopectate? It should start working soon. 102 is not an alarming temp. Back off any grain & only offer hay. If you have rasberry or blackberry vines turn her loose on them.
Let us know. By your prefix you are in western Wa, no?

102 is *normal* temp. :)

Yeah I just went back to fix that but yu beat me to it.

I wonder if she shouldnt get more fluids?

I have never had to do SubQ fluids, so that's out of my experience.

USe distilled water for drinking etc, I have used pepto sucessfully with dogs in this condition.

sugar water and probiotics. SubQ fluids are injected just under the skin till there is a lump and then wait till lump disappears before giving again.

CMPK has also been used.

Ive never done sq fluid either, was thinking about just drenching her if she doesnt drink on her own.
If she is dehyrated you can tell by pulling up the skin. If it doesnt go back quickly she needs hydrated.

Here she would be getting Ringers (to replace her fluids)... If it's a bad case of cocci.. I have never had any luck with Corid stopping an outbreak... (good for prevention, not so good for treatment) I would be giving her Di-Methox 40 (there has been a shortage & it's been hard to find).. BUT.. you should be able to find SULMET in a tractor supply or feed store..

I really think she has got to be badly dehydrated by now.. she needs fluids... Where are you located??? I keep Ringers on hand at all times... I'm sure there are others on the board that do too... or a local dog breeder/horse person.. maybe even a small animal vet clinic would be willing to sell you some.. you don't have to IV it.. it just goes in under her skin.. very easy and a real life saver...

sorry she is so sick
susie, mo ozarks

i use pepto for mine seems to work good and a little bit corn syrup helps to give engery

Corid works for prevention. It does not work well for treatment. You simply can't give it long enough.

You need Dimethox 40 injectable. I know right now, its really hard to find. I believe there is a 40 sulmet. Not sure though.

Also, let her drink. If her stools are that loose she NEEDS the fluids or she will die of dehydration. If she was here she would be getting sub q fluids.

According to the area code, western Washington State.

I would be pushing probiotics in mass, also yogurt. And I would do some injected antibiotics rather than just oral if that's what you are doing.

I often give yogurt mixed with rice baby cereal and mashed up banana, then mix it with just a bit of milk to make it runny enough to go through the nipple with a big hole. I just open acidophiles capsules or probiotic capsules and mix in it too. It's not their favorite, but if you can force it down them it helps to stop them up.

If it were a human child, I would say FLUIDS -FLUIDS-FLUIDS! With either salt or sugar for electrolytes.

With human kids, the diarrhea will take the fluids out of the body. Drinking less does not reduce the diarrhea, it just makes dehydration more likely.

The electrolytes are to replace the electrolytes the patient is losing in the diarrhea: without electrolytes the body has trouble holding on to any fluids the patient might receive.

I am not a goat person, but this is how it works in human patients. Dehydration in a little one is very, very dangerous. Fluids and electrolytes! By sub-Q if this works well with goats, by mouth with electrolytes, (Pedialyte is full of electrolytes, corn syrup or sugar provides electrolytes, whatever)

Sorry I went outside to give her more water to drink so she doesn't have to get up to get to the bowl. I gave her a baytril injection 2cc. She is drinking a lot. I will try and give her a bottle of milk with a little yogurt in it. I did 150 cc sub Q of Ringers. If she doesn't pull out of this soon I will do IV fluids. I am a licensed phlebotomist so IV's are a piece of cake.

Yes I am in Western Washington, I live in Bellingham. I am supposed to go to work tonight but I think I will call in sick. I honestly don't care what they think.

The Kaopectate is NOT doing anything so far so she just got another dose.

This baby is so sick that she doesn't even mind getting a sponge bath. She is not fighting me at all. she is still standing and walking and nuzzling me. She will NOT eat any raspberry or blackberry leaves.

I will start calling the feed stores now for the dimethox.

I just called in to work, luckily I got the manager that has farm animals so he said it was fine.

Thank you ladies so much!!
Kris

Unflavored Pedialyte has no flavor or smell, I've given it to puppies and they drank it right down. Please allow your doe to have ALL the water she's willing to drink - and they usually will drink up water if it's offered very warm. There are many electrolyte products you can ad to her water - offer her 2 buckets, plain and treated with electrolytes.
Kaolin Pectin works very well too, it's available at TSC, I'd give it at 5cc's every 4 hours until she stops "running", then twice a day for a few days to coat her digestive tract.
She may also have a bacterial infection in her gut and Neomycin has always worked here (again at TSC) in addition to the other things mentioned. Fortified B Complex given SQ daily would help greatly too or at least regular B Complex.

I don't know if this necessarily applies to goats, but our horse just went through a horrible impaction colic. The impaction developed into awful diarreah, just liquid sqeaking by the blockage. My vet said, watch out for salmonella as a secondary infection, it likes to take advantage and bad diarreah can develop into salmonella, causing more diarreah, etc. The vets at Leesburg vet hospital tested, but said they really didn't think it'd be positive. It was. So, you might want to keep an eye out for that too. Not trying to scare you, but with really bad liquid diarreah, I will now always check for salmonella too. Once the primary issue (sounds like coccidia here) opens the door, I now worry about salmonella jumping in and rearing its ugly head. The thing about salmonella is it can be fatal, but there are antibiotics that do a great job clearing it up if you catch it, so I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Good luck, we're sending lots of vibes and prayers for your girl to make a quick recovery!

Di-Methox 40 may not be available anywhere (I know I've bought every bottle I could find)... most places will carry Sulmet (even if it's just the 12.5 soultion).. if you can get that & get it into her, I really think you'll see some improvement with the diarrhea (if this is cocci-.. very likely for due to her age & symptoms).. all the pepto/Kaopectate/yogurt ect won't stop the runs... not until the cocci are killed off... (if you do find Di-Methox or Sulmet.. let us know and someone can give you dosing directions... DO NOT dilute Sulmet, as it says on the bottle directions.. might be okay for chickens, but not goats)

((( I lost my very first and very loved bottle doeling to cocci.. simply because I didn't understand the damage it was silently doing to her guts..(I *thought* I was giving her enough corid to prevent it, but I wasn't).. so while my newbie self was trying to figure out what was wrong with her... she didn't have the usual runs... she just wouldn't eat... by the time I got her to a vet and we figured out what was going on.. it was too late for her... I am a cocci prevention nut now.. I assume EVERY case of diarrhea in one of my kids, is cocci and that is always my first line of treatment... sometimes it ends up being something else.. but I've never lost another bottle kid!!)))

susie, mo ozarks

Okay I located some Sulfadimethox, so off to the feed store to get it. What dosage does she get she is about 20-25 lbs?

Thanks

it will depend on the % of the sufadimethox you get...

susie, mo ozarks

Keep it up with the fluids. If you are doing ringers subq, as soon as you see that they are absorbed(lump gone), give her more.

I found Di-Methox 40 here;

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/di-m.../LIV/cp/A2-AE/

None of the item description indicates use for treating coccidiosis in goats. Is this off-label use? Sorry! Not questioning your expertise. I'm looking to understand.
Thanks!

it's the ONLY thing we use for prevention/treatment of cocci... simply because it works so well (and with it being 40%) we can give a whole lot less (it tastes AWFUL.. trust me LOL.. sadly I know.. it also stings when it gets in your eyes.. again, something I know :o... It's given orally (even tho it's labeled for injection)...
With the Coccidiosis, it takes a sulfur to kill it... DiMethox is SULFAdimethoxine Sulmet is SULFAmethazine sodium... SMZ tablets (I think they are SULFAmethoxazole) Albon.. SULFAdimethoxine Just got to pick the one that works best.

susie, mo ozarks

Goats do better with sub q fluids for what ever reason. when you water down the blood if shes anemic it can also make things worse which is if I remember correctly is why the do better.
I would be looking for a breeder in your area if nothing more a breeding kennel for dogs. Albon for dogs is the same drug you need for your goat. We do sell sulmet at TSC but its about $65 a bottle.

Can you get your hands on b12?

Ok the only one they had was Sulfadimethoxine powder it is labeled for cattle and chickens. It is manufactured by Agripharm Products

For dairy calves it is 25mg/lb the first day followed by 12.5mg/lb there after for 4 days. Each packet contains 94.6g

For a cattle stock solution it is 1 packet per gallon of water.
Sorry math is NOT my strong point!

So how much does a 20lb goat get??

... I've never used the powder.. so it's going to take someone else to help dose I'm afraid. (does the package say what the strength is when it's mixed according to label?)

susie

No unfortunately it does not.

Pepto, as disgusting as it is, is pleasing to goats. i cannot imagine why, but I digress. I gave ------ a mixture of the pepto and palin yogurt, AND pediatlye. You would have thought he was drinking champagne :yuck: but it DID help slow down the diarrhea, which leads to dehydration, which leads to...well, we won't go there casue this little fella is going to make it.

If you want I can pm you #of vet in Mt Vernon. I hear he is quite good

Beccachow is right about the pepto. Go ahead & give her 3-6cc orally. Going to pm vet # in case you need it.

sent you a PM

susie

Here is a link to the product
http://www.fleetfarm.com/catalog/pro...xine-107-grams

Here's a page that *may* have the info for the DiMethox strength you found:
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=9125.0

Alice.. I have Ken on the phone.. he's doing the math for us...

susie

Good. I can't do math like that.

Fixin' to go milk.

THANK YOU SUSIE!

This is what I use for all my bottle babies.

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/decc.../LIV/cp/D8-D1/

This goes right in their bottle, once a day. The bottle babies never scour, but the dam-raised ones are a different story.

Susie's friend did the math for me and I started treatment. YEA!!!

** Nancy chuckanut vet said they have no ideas yet about what else to do but said they will call me if they figure anything out. I told them everything I did today for her. They will give me a pager number after hours if things get worse but i feel in my gut that now that I have the right meds in her things should start looking up.

The diarrhea is now more gelatinous then watery so I think that is good. I will keep up the fluids.

forgot to add her lips and tongue are COLD to the touch but her temp is normal??? What is that about? I felt the other goat's mouth and it is nice and warm. I will take her temp again to see if there are any changes.