Dissapointed with copper bolus results
 

I copper bolused March 3rd and my goats look worse now than ever. :(
Frankie is loosing hair in gobs and Gretta and Flossie look scruffy and dull. I know it has a lot to do with loosing the winter coat but Jeez...it was never this bad. And MIL and SIL are coming to visit for the first time and I'm embarrassed on how awful they look :(:(
I have seen pictures here on how great some goats look after copper bolusing so I thought I would try it...they didn't look bad, until I copper bolused. :grumble:

Did you give Bo-Se at the same time?

I highly doubt the copper made them look worse....there has got to be something else going on.

We are not selenium deficient here so I never used BoSe

Gotcha... I give Bo-Se when I bolus...with the exception of when I repeated Sabrina's 6 weeks later because she was so severly deficient....didn't use Bo-Se then.

Copper is an essential mineral for goats.....can not see how it would CAUSE your issues... I think you'd be more likely to see no results, vs a bad looking goat.

Hows the weather there? Can you shave them? I shaved everyone as soon as I was able so I could get rid of the brittle, gross, copper deficient hair and everyone is growing in nice and sleek..

Hopefully someone can chime in with ideas for you to try.... sorry :(

Im sorry :( just a thought, hay is older this time of year and feed companies have drastically changed some feeds to keep up with a price point and some ideal ingredients have been replaced with some heavy fillers. I noticed that there is more soybean and peanut hulls taking their place at the top of feed labels and this in itself can change things. I noticed my goats where not looking as good as I wanted and that was seemingly caused as since I have went to a different feed they are shinning up, course that would also run in course of about the time the copper kicked in.

As far as the bolus itself, you may need more than the 2 grams because I dont know the soil content I base my sales on my area and encourage everyone to figure out what works best for you since its really all guestamations

A copper bolus may not have solved you problem but it certainly didn't make it worse. There are many causes of hair loss in goats lice, mange, ring worm, stress, hormonal or metabolic causes, extreme vitamin or mineral deficiency such as copper, zinc, iodine or vitamin A. Once you find the cause you'll be able to figure out what kind of treatment to use.

I feel the same way about two of mine. I only use Bo-Se on a weak kid as we are not in a deficient area either. I did 30 goats and the rest are fine except for two.

My mini Mancha who is 10 months old and a Nigie wether who is 11 months old both got a smaller dose then the older bigger goats and they both look icky. I have others in the same size and age group who got the same dose and do not look like them, they look fine. They did not look like that before the bolus, it has been almost a month and they now look awful, thankfully clumps of hair are not falling out.

I am not sure what is going on with those two but I am not happy with the way they look. I am keeping a close eye on them and they seem fine except for their thinner scruffy hair.

ETA..... my hay is the same horse quality grass hay they have before the bolus and there is nothing in it besides grass. None of mine have lice I already checked that and in a herd of 30 surely if they were lacking something others would show some sign of it. I am not saying it is the copper for sure but something started bugging these two within 2 weeks of the bolus. It is weird whatever it is.

Have you done a fecal test?

Good point Alice...I'm taking a skin scraping to work tomorrow and I will be sure to take some of Frankie's berries and have a look see at that under the microscope. I want to cover all bases. Now today he is loosing hair on his legs too. And the bare spots on his sides is getting sunburned! Poor guy :(

hay looses quality as it gets older no matter the quality from the start. There are many factors that can cause these symptoms. Hopefully its just as easy as adding some more copper. I didnt notice anything different about the appearance of the copper bit I did switch to a larger ordering quantity, the 25gram vrs the 12.5 gram

post some pics please. I want to see how his hair is doing I have a thought....

They only feed I buy for them is the alfalfa pellets (Standlee). The grass hay is locally grown. I gave Frankie and Gretta 2 of the Bolus and Flossie one. According to the maps we are not copper defficient but they kinda had the fish tail thing going and Frankie had a little redish color on some of his black hair. Not real bad but a little.

what about your Iron levels? Standlee is a reputable company and I have been happy with their products.
I cant tell anything from your pics on the other thread I need to see up close

Here..I just took some more pics. I am mortified!!!! As for Iron...I would guess that's it's probably high.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1...D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1...D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1...D550/ry%3D400/

I hope the skin scraping tells you something, its not what I had thought in the back of my mind (threadworms) it almost looks like hes been rubbing against something due to the fine scratches. that area is one hard for a goat to scratch themselves so they find something to work. . Their coats do not look as bad as I thought they would, bet theres a nice undercoat coming in.
If you have high Iron, Iron blocks the absorption of copper and thus you must ad more copper as whats in the water and soil isnt getting absorbed.

I did notice him rubbing on the entrance/doorway to their hut. But really I am not noticing too much scratching going on. I used to know there was a problem because they would bite at their ankles. None of that this year. I am brushing and brushing...they all have dandruff but that is normal for this time of year. I am not too optimistic about the skin scraping. It can take several tries for mites to show up on dogs on a scraping. I would think the same would be true with goats. I hope I can collect a good sample..I'm off to do that right now.
Thanks everyone for your help! You are just the best :clap:

I have seen cattle loose their hair like this from lice...I am interested to see what you find out under a microscope.

I just want to express that I really don't blame the copper bolus. I am just very frustrated and scared. :( Sorry I'm so crabby

Google 'hair loss iodine goat'.

Skin scrape and fecal were both negative. I posted on the other thread about Frankie loosing hair
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sho...d.php?t=393667
Any help or ideas or opinions greatly appreciated :(

I read that wether goats can have hormone issues and lose hair. Also hormone hair loss doesn't itch. It would be interesting to have a hypothyroid blood test done. Does the one for dogs work for goats?

I'll have to ask my vet about that on wed. Hormone issues crossed my mind too.

The horse test might be more accurate? http://www.eudaemonic.net/isyour.htm

I'm going to suggest something a bit off the wall. A betadine bath just in-case its some type of fungal infection.

To much copper can also lead to Hair Loss, and Copper should always be given with Magnesium to have it work properly. Just a pinch of Magnesium is enough, along with copper. Be careful that you don't copper bolus to often as they stay in the system for about 1 year.

The effectiveness wanes after about four months. I have to bolus at least three times a year.

Read more at
http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

Not a bad idea since the vet doesn't really know what's going on & it surely won't hurt Frankie, well other than the wet part he probly will hate.

I did a little research on fungus and it says when there is a problem the hair breaks off a little above the root. This is completely smooth bald in some areas. I do have MTG that is good for treating fungus issues (and more) but that is why the sunburn is so bad. I'm treating the sunburn and hopefully there will be some new growth and then I'll use the MTG. I'm leary to use anything topical because of the sunburn right now. It needs to settle a bit. What a mess :( but I can think of a lot of worse things. I'm going to talk to my vet about Thyroid, adrenal glands and hypothyroidism tomorrow. If need be, I will call on another vet that I use for sheath cleaning/teeth floating on the horses. He used to raise goats and is actively treating large animals. But he is pretty far away so the farm call will cost a lot. The whole thing will cost a lot cuz If I have him come out he might as well do the horses too!!

maybe use a sun burn medicine. MTG is sulfer so maybe just make a sulfer paste I have no idea how but thought Id throw that out there.
With goopy stuff it may smother whatever it is. Deflea will help with mites without bad chemicals. I swear though its looked like hes rubbed himself raw, its in the perfect I cant reach it spot. IF you have clippers and its not too cold id clip him down.

I'm using aloe vera on the sunburn and water babies SPF50. I have only seen him rubbing once. But ya never know. I did do the Ivomec injection last night.

Hey Minelson. This is Deafgoatlady but I changed my profile and information.

I think your wether may have zinc issue going on. You may want to give him zinc and I have read and heard that it does help with hair.. You may want to check into that and get zinc and crush them and give it to him.

Thanks DGL! I will look into a zinc deficiency. I even have a bunch of zinc tabs on hand :)

I found a few different discussions on using Zinc for hair loss using google. It made me feel better to see others with the same problem...even worse with completely bald!
So I think it may be a good idea to start Frankie on 50 mg zinc a day. I can stick the tablet right in his daily dosage ball that he is already getting.

Here are 2 threads that I saved
http://thegoatspot.net/phpbb/viewtop...=10083&start=0

http://goatwisdom.proboards.com/inde...lay&thread=845