bitter/goaty milk - nutritional help

**mygoat** · #61 04/19/11, 11:39 AM

Thanks! What range should Cobalt be in the cobalt blocks? I'm probably going to go the route of a custom mix, and just mix in some vitamin supplement.

I've been giving vitamin b12 losenges that I found at Walmart. They're 2500 mg per tablet. I gave 2 each the first time, then 1 per feeding since, or 2x per day. I eventually plan on giving them once or twice per week per doe, then down to whenever they need it. They actually like them, so it makes it super easy. They taste great. I didn't want to have to give injections all the time.

AgrarianDr · #62 04/19/11, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Also, you are mixing bleach and soap together?? That can have undesired results, as they do not mix well together.

I'm pretty smart, but I certainly don't know everything, and the above quote has me puzzled that you may know something I don't.

So I have to ask. In what way does mixing bleach and soap have undesired results?
I have done it for years, in a number of applications. My chemist friends explain to me that soap, by design, simply wraps itself around a dirt or oil molecule to allow you to wash it away with water.
The soap is also loaded with surfactants (used in everything from house paint to shampoos to baby formulas). By mixing with bleach you still get the benefit of the bleach but rinsing with water leaves no bleach residue (like that nasty film you get on your hands when doing the laundry).

I also have a friend who pressure washes homes for a living (here in the humid south we get a lot of mold on the house). He uses a bleach/dawn dish washing soap mix and never has that white milky look (from bleach) on the windows of the house, which is the biggest complaint from people after their house has be PW'd.
Is there something that it does to the skin? a chemical reaction that I'm not aware of?

TIA

Alice In TX/MO · #63 04/19/11, 02:47 PM

I had never heard that either, so I googled it....

This may be why the fiascofarm.com website clearly states which form of Dawn dish soap is safe to use.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_mi...oap_and_bleach

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3225415AAEKzGF

AgrarianDr · #64 04/19/11, 07:57 PM

Ahh HA! Yes, I can see where using bleach and ammonia might cause a "tad" bit of a problem... hadn't thought about that
Thanks

hopin2havfun · #65 04/19/11, 08:18 PM

I had a problem last year with a togg x and thought it was just breed related but now with more research I believe she needed a copper bolus. We have a very similar sanitary regime...but I milk directly on to small frozen water bottles. It adds to our washing, but it gets the milk on ice right away. I unscrew the lids to the bottles and sanitize the lid and under the lid and if I get [I]any[I] leakage of milk into the frozen watter bottle then it gets pitched.

Just my 2 cents worth...

**mygoat** · #66 04/19/11, 08:50 PM

Well, my milk is GREAT now. I attribute it almost 100% to the addition of B12 to the diet. I strongly belive they were deficient. The change was immediate. While the new method of extreme chilling definetely helped with the shelf life of the milk, before I added B12 it still had a bitter aftertaste. Not terrible and still drinkable for a day or more, but still there.

From now on, whenever anyone asks about strong flavored milk, I'm convinced that adding some cheap B12 losenges to the grain at am/pm milkings should be the first action.

Laverne · #67 04/19/11, 08:58 PM

That's very interesting and awesome B 12 is doing that.

francismilker · #68 04/19/11, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Well, my milk is GREAT now. I attribute it almost 100% to the addition of B12 to the diet. I strongly belive they were deficient. The change was immediate. While the new method of extreme chilling definetely helped with the shelf life of the milk, before I added B12 it still had a bitter aftertaste. Not terrible and still drinkable for a day or more, but still there.

From now on, whenever anyone asks about strong flavored milk, I'm convinced that adding some cheap B12 losenges to the grain at am/pm milkings should be the first action.

Where do you get B12 in tablet form?

Laverne · #69 04/20/11, 12:41 AM

Swanson's vitamins online have them. Most health food stores also

Cheribelle · #70 04/20/11, 05:18 AM

Mine gets her chewable Vit.C after milking. I release the headgate, and she waits for her "candy". I am sure a B12 would also be good stuff!

RedSonja · #71 04/20/11, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheribelle

Alice, I LOVE that container, too! I get them at WalMart for under $5.

I have one of those as well, also from Amazon. Amazon Prime is great, but sometimes hard on the wallet

If Wal-Mart has them that cheap, I might have to brave the evil and go in one to get some more. Reckon I can get some of those b-12 lozenges while I'm there as well.

-Sonja

LoneStrChic23 · #72 04/20/11, 03:35 PM

What an interesting thread!!!!

I was having similar milk issues....found out I was accidently feeding medicated feed, so assumed that or my utensil handling was to blame.

I haven't drank the milk since, figured I would start after my new feed order comes in (next week).

Since I suspected my utensil handling/washing may be to blame I ordered the cleaning kit from Hoeggers (waiting on it to come in).

Now, I think I'll go in search of some yummy form of B12 & a cobalt block to add to the mix. I'm assuming you just leave the cobalt block out free choice like the loose minerals?

Was not aware that Alpines had a rep for gross milk with so many people. I've had nasty Nubian milk and nasty Togg milk (though I think that was more of an individual goat thing vs. a breed thing), but not from Alpines..I grew up with Alpines and used to watch my mom make butter with the milk by shaking it in a jar (or halfway through she'd make me sit at the table and shake the jar) She skiimed cream off the previous days milk if there was any left in the fridge, add it to 1/2 jar of fresh milk and shake away....though I've since been told you can't make butter with alpine milk either..... I do not like strong flavored milk at all, and before I suspected medicated feed/improper handling our milk was super yummy.....Even served it to my brother who HATES goats milk and he didn't know it wasn't cow's milk

He said the milk was fantastic and creamier and wanted to know if I finally bought a jug of the organic cow's milk he recomended to me... I let him have 2 glasses before I told him the truth

Alice In TX/MO · #73 04/20/11, 03:39 PM

The Alpine milk comments amazed me as well. I know it's not a high fat as our MiniManchas, but it's good milk.

The MiniMancha milk is like half-and-half!

Laverne · #74 04/20/11, 04:24 PM

Before I got goats I bought milk from two different Alpine herds. Both had a similar flavor, just different than my LaManchas. My LM's don't get b 12 and their milk is great. Their milk has never been bad.

LoneStrChic23 · #75 04/20/11, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

The Alpine milk comments amazed me as well. I know it's not a high fat as our MiniManchas, but it's good milk.

The MiniMancha milk is like half-and-half!

I've tried my Alpine milk side by side with my friend's Mancha x Nubian does milk and there was barely any difference at all.....the only slight difference was hers was barely more creamy.....but not by much, and certainly not as creamy as my mini Alpine's milk....Tootsie's milk is like 1/2 & 1/2 too!

My friend's Mancha x Nubian is 3/4 Nubian and for the past 3 months had been on the same feeding program as my girls, and my Alpine certainly didn't have stronger milk, or a different flavor, just the tiniest smidge less creamy.

Until my medicated feed bit I've not had a milk problem....and even when I noticed it, the difference was slight..... In all honesty I think it's my cleaning routine because I have some milk stone built up in my jars....scrubbed it out with vinegar, but I'm looking forward to my sanitizing kit from Hoeggers to get the job done right.

Redneck_Royalty · #76 04/23/11, 09:27 AM

AWESOME! So glad it worked. I have used Vit B complex (then they get a full range of Bs) with great success. I had a togg doe that this happened to, and everyone said toggs just have nasty milk - NOT TRUE!

I agree that 9 times out of 10 its cobalt def. American Stockman has cobalt blocks that are 200 ppm and cargill has blocks that are 100 ppm.

I am actually looking at making my own salt blocks in the cheese press - I would like to see about 300 ppm. and work my way up until I get the right blend and do not need to suppliment.

With Vit b, one b complex or b 12 once a day should suffice once you clear that flavor. Bs are naturally flushed out of the system every 24 hours. So regardless of the method, unless you use cobalt so the goat can make her own...you have to dose it every day ideally. The cobalt the goat stores in her liver, and then synthesizes her b vitimins herself.

So glad it worked, and so glad to help people understand this problem.

rootsandwings · #77 04/23/11, 10:21 AM

never mind - didn't see the last page and that the problem was solved.

**mygoat** · #78 04/23/11, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francismilker

Where do you get B12 in tablet form?

The ones I get are called losenges, I think simply because they dissolve really quick. They're essentially candy flavored tablets that dissolve well... meaning they can't spit them out easily if they suddenly decide they don't want them, lol.

I got mine as 60 tablets at 2500 mg/tablet, for 5.00 at Wal-mart.

Heritagefarm · #79 04/24/11, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgrarianDr

I'm pretty smart, but I certainly don't know everything, and the above quote has me puzzled that you may know something I don't.

So I have to ask. In what way does mixing bleach and soap have undesired results?
I have done it for years, in a number of applications. My chemist friends explain to me that soap, by design, simply wraps itself around a dirt or oil molecule to allow you to wash it away with water.
The soap is also loaded with surfactants (used in everything from house paint to shampoos to baby formulas). By mixing with bleach you still get the benefit of the bleach but rinsing with water leaves no bleach residue (like that nasty film you get on your hands when doing the laundry).

I also have a friend who pressure washes homes for a living (here in the humid south we get a lot of mold on the house). He uses a bleach/dawn dish washing soap mix and never has that white milky look (from bleach) on the windows of the house, which is the biggest complaint from people after their house has be PW'd.
Is there something that it does to the skin? a chemical reaction that I'm not aware of?

TIA

I have heard that if soap is combined with bleach, it can create a harmful gas. I have not been able to verify this information, however. It may just be a rumor. Bleach contains lye (soap). I don't know about Dawn dishsoap and bleach; I hate cheap dishsoaps. You can't tell what's in them. We buy CitraDish just for the peace of mind of having an ingredients label.

Alice In TX/MO · #80 04/24/11, 09:47 AM

It's not the soap that is dangerous to mix with bleach. It's any product (detergent, etc.) that is an acid or contains ammonia or vinegar.

Unless you KNOW what ingredients your soap or detergent has in it, you don't know if it's safe to mix in bleach.

Apparently, the original blue Dawn is safe to mix with bleach in very small amounts.