bitter/goaty milk - nutritional help

Alice In TX/MO · #21 04/13/11, 09:37 PM

Are you using a sponge?

**mygoat** · #22 04/13/11, 09:40 PM

Not a sponge, but a brush rather like a toilet bowl cleaner but made for doing dishes.

The jars just get dish soap.

I changed two things with tonight's milking - I took bleach out of the udder wash and I also did NOT use sanitizer. Those are the two things I think are possibly causing trouble.

Though, I did do a taste test while out there milking. I milked, strained, then took a sip. I didn't like it (I hate warm milk) but I couldn't taste anything wrong with it then. The 2nd freshener's milk is stronger tasting but I'm thinking that's just how she is - the first freshener milk tasted fine. I re-tasted the milk in my fridge - oldest from 4/12 pm - and it was gross.

Alice In TX/MO · #23 04/13/11, 09:58 PM

You don't use that brush for anything other than the jars and buckets, right? I also had to fight hubby about using the milk brush on supper dishes.

I use the dairy soap, acid wash, etc., on everything, including the brush. The brush *never* gets used for anything that could leave food particles on it.

My jars go in the dishwasher, so their insides never get touched by a brush, etc.

Backtracking with more brainstorming....
Have you sent in samples for mastitis testing?

After re-reading your posts above....
I do not use sanitizer in my buckets before milking. After they have been washed and air dried upside down, I never could see the sense in that.

Have you checked the temperature in your refrigerator? What part of the fridge is the milk stored in?

Smell the lids. Is the gasket stinky? I don't use those; I use the white lids you can get for canning jars.

OK, here's a weird suggestion, too. Get someone not in your family to taste the milk after three days. I swear that there are some things that taste different to me than to the rest of the world. Like olives. I have no idea why anyone would eat one of those nasty things. So...... let's check that, too.

Make sure it's not just your incredibly sensitive taste buds!

Heritagefarm · #24 04/13/11, 11:04 PM

Do you pool the milk? It could be just one goat. You might just simply have bad tasting goats.

RedSonja · #25 04/13/11, 11:57 PM

One other idea to think about ... What about the water your does are drinking? Is it well water or city water? Don't know if that could case milk flavor issues or not but, it's probably one thing all the goats you've milked have had in common.

-Sonja

**mygoat** · #26 04/14/11, 11:29 AM

We have well water, but it is softened - all the water comes off of our water softener, the lucky goats.

I do use the same brush for cleaning dishes and the jars. It gets bleached every once in a while. I do have an extra, I can start using it excusively for milking equip I suppose.

And no, the milk is not really pooled... The first doe milked is the FF, because she gives more and her milk was sweeter originally. Sometimes she gives more than a 1/2 gallon per milking, so I start her on a second. I then ice the full one, and filter the 2nd freshener's milk into the 2nd started jar. If either of them have a bad flavor straight from the goat, it's the 2nd freshener, hence why I milk her SECOND.

**mygoat** · #27 04/14/11, 11:51 AM

Ok, I'm working on changing a few things.

I stopped spraying with sanitizer. Sometimes it's almost a chemically bitter taste so I figured I'd just stop the sanitizer. I shouldn't need it if my equip is sanitized before.

Secondly, I stopped putting bleach in the udder wash/teat dip. I was using an 'off brand' bleach, but fiasco farm suggests ONLY chlorox so I'll be picking some up today to use. I will use just a minimal amount in the wash.

Third, I will start sanitizing my milking buckets, jars, etc and equipment with bleach before allowing it to air dry, as fiasco farm suggests.

I will use a separate brush for JUST the milking equipment, and will bleach it 2x daily right along with the milking equipment, to make sure it's stays squeaky clean.

Cheribelle · #28 04/14/11, 12:02 PM

Sounds to me like you are WAY pickier than I am, but my Saanen's milk is wonderful. Never milked an Alpine, yet.

**mygoat** · #29 04/14/11, 12:18 PM

Pickier - how? I'm talking about a STRONG taste and aftertaste. I almost wish someone was close enough to try some of my milk and see what they say it tastes like. Or are you talking about procedure? I know people who used to do a LOT less sanitary methods than I do now and never said anything about bitter milk.

bergere · #30 04/14/11, 12:19 PM

I don't know what these folks do but their goat milk and cheese are always wonderful in flavor. People can't tell the difference between a good cow's milk and their goat milk. No goaty flavors at all.

You could talk with them and see what they do.
Port Madison goat Dairy
http://www.soundfood.org/sfcommunity...and-dairy.html

I haven't been able to find a goat dairy down this way, as good as they are. Wish I could find a good place that has mild, non goaty tasting goats milk, in this area.

**mygoat** · #31 04/14/11, 03:47 PM

May have figured out the issue.

Apparently, goats naturaly produce an enzyme called Lipase. Some goats make more than others. Higher levels of Lipase cause milk to deteriorate rapidly in storage... PRECISELY what is happening.

Here it is in Goat Medicine (LOVE that it is online, but I really want a copy at home...)

Goat Medicine info on Off Flavor milk

The good news is, the levels can be lowered by 'heat treating' just like with CAE - heating to 135*.

Alice In TX/MO · #32 04/14/11, 04:10 PM

I almost asked if you were shaking your jars of milk. Lipase is broken down easily by vibration, too, which is one of the reasons it doesn't travel well.

Lada · #33 04/14/11, 08:29 PM

I think maybe the spraying with sanitizer could be part of it. I sanitize once a day with Clorox, let it set for a minute and then dry overnight.

That's interesting about the Lipase. I've heard that term before somewhere....

Alice In TX/MO · #34 04/14/11, 08:54 PM

Lipase powder is what you add to milk to make the stronger tasting cheeses!

**mygoat** · #35 04/14/11, 09:13 PM

I am now sanitizing the equip with bleach 1x per day after PM milking, instead of spraying sanitizer. I am still spraying with the sanitizer, but just after the AM milking to make sure that the chlorine is fully evaporating before the PM milking.

The person I bought my alpines from said she had the same problem before, but her issue was solved by treating for cobalt deficiency. She is a GENIUS when it comes to nutrition so I'll be trying her treatment as well. Apparently there is a product called Colife-V that will help as a fast treatment, but also feed additives like Zin-Pro 4 plex and Availa 4. She apparently also uses a Cobalt block but said those are hard to find.

Alice In TX/MO · #36 04/14/11, 09:36 PM

Here's a source of cobalt supplement powder.
http://www.jollygerman.com/products/...tsulfate.shtml

Cobalt block. The shipping is bad.
http://www.amazon.com/North-American...2831506&sr=8-1

Creamers · #37 04/14/11, 11:31 PM

I know what you're talking about - and everytime I've had it - it is an Alpine, BUT have you had other goats' milk and liked it? That would be the test because my son likes the same Alpine milk I gag at - loves it, actually. . .I think some folks are MUCH more inclined to taste the strong flavor, and I am one of those.

PurpleMartineer · #38 04/14/11, 11:40 PM

Last year my goats were thin and I fed them the same grain mix you do, plus beet pulp, alfalfa pellets and timothy grass hay/alfalfa hay. The just didnt put weight on like they should. This year because I am limited on my options I chose to just go with Purina Goat Chow mixed with Mare and Foal, beet pulp and BOSS. Last year the milk did similar to what yours is doing, only it lasted for about a day in the fridge--maybe 2--anything afterward was used for cheese or soap. I couldnt even think about making yogurt with it, the yogurt would taste like buckbeard. Now this year with the good weights and commercial feed I am getting sweet yummy milk that lasts for a week or more in the fridge with no goaty flavors. I can barely make my chevre taste like goat cheese! And the yogurt is DIVINE. I wont stop feeding as I do now. I think its making the difference.

Cheribelle · #39 04/15/11, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Pickier - how? I'm talking about a STRONG taste and aftertaste. I almost wish someone was close enough to try some of my milk and see what they say it tastes like. Or are you talking about procedure? I know people who used to do a LOT less sanitary methods than I do now and never said anything about bitter milk.

Sorry! I meant pickier with procedure, not taste buds....

Laverne · #40 04/15/11, 05:19 AM

A lot of things have been covered so far but I am curious if you have milked each side separately and have seen if each side goes bad at the same rate.
I used to have an Alpine many years ago and her milk wouldn't last long without getting goaty. I read somewhere at the time about Lypolytic Cell Rancidity. Anyway I pasturized it and it solved the problem.