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weak rear end
I have a doe with very weak back legs. She got really sick a while back and the vet thought it was CAE or lyme, but all tests came back negative. Since then she has made a great recovery and is doing a lot better, except that her back legs are still very weak. She can get around on flat ground pretty well and doesn't seem to be in pain, nothing is swollen, no heat, etc (she has a "stiffness" in her back legs when she walks though). But getting on and off the milking stand is very hard for her, she usually needs help. I modified it yesterday and shortened the legs on the stand, now it is only about 8 inches off the ground. I thought that would make it easier for her, but she is still struggling to step up.
I am going to try a ramp tonight when I give her grain, I'm not sure if that'll help or not. Any suggestions for what might be causing this stiffness? arthritis? She also has a recurring skin condition (a dry, itchy rash that scabs easily) that is under control right now, but has been a big problem for her in the past. I'm not sure if those 2 things are connected at all. She has had a copper bolus, and I've been using some homeopathic remedies from a friend who manages her sheep herd with homeopathy. It's too early to really tell if the homeopathy is working or not. She did improve after the copper bolus, but is still having some issues. |
Have you ever had her checked for worms?
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White tail deer in your area? What have you used for deworming? I'm wondering about meningeal worm.
That said, I have a couple of goats (mother and daughter) who don't climb or jump. I built a ramp when I was milking the mother (now eleven years old) so that she could get on the milk stand. For the daughter, who is even larger, I built a milk stand with NO legs. |
she has been dewormed with Safegard. She had an injectible dewormer in the early fall that was done by the vet. I don't remember what it was called.
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UH OH.:shocked:
Safeguard is ineffective in all goat worms except tapeworms. It has been over used till the worms are immune. All dewormers for goats are given orally, not injected. Your goat has not been dewormed. What color are the inside of her lower eye lids? If pale pink or white, she is SEVERELY anemic. Take a fecal sample to a different vet, maybe one who knows something about goats, then spend some time reading about dewormers and goats at the following website: http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?board=12.0 |
uh-oh! :eek: :smack
You guys might have to help me out. What is the best oral dewormer to give to goats? And is it safe for pregnant does? Unfortunately, the vet that I used (the one that gave the injectible dewormer and recommended safegard as one of the best dewormer brands) is literally the ONLY large animal vet in the area. I live in a very rural area. What can I do?? EDIT: sorry, didn't see the link that you posted. I will check that out! Also, all of my other goats seem perfectly healthy. If it were worms, wouldn't it be affecting everyone? They have all lived together in close quarters all winter and have been sharing food/bedding/etc |
I will look into having a fecal done, although honestly, I didn't really trust this vet before finding this out about wormers...and now I am even more hesitant to use him.
From what i am gathering from the internet, ivermectin will be the most wide-range dewormer and will kill meningeal worms. but it can't cross the blood-brain barrier to reverse any nerve damage that may have been done by the worms, if they are the cause of her hind end weakness. We do have white tail deer around here :( I also read that vitamin e and selenium can be beneficial in helping to heal nerve damage...and that a deficiency in selenium can cause similar symptoms, so that would probably be wise to give her. It can't hurt, right? Does it sound like I'm on the right track here? |
Some goats are more vulnerable to worms. Different life events make the worms 'bloom', too.
Sounds like you are developing a game plan. Fecal test. If there's barberpole (HC) worms and if she's over 100 days bred, give her 1cc of Ivomec Plus per 30 pounds orally. Get the selenium from the vet, if he'll sell it to you. It's called BoSe, and you do inject that. 1 cc per 40 pounds. How old is this goat? |
Check the inner eyelids
http://www.buckeyevet.org/files/Quic...machaChart.jpg |
she is 4 years old. I will check the eyelids tomorrow morning when I feed her.
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Here is a way to do your own fecals cheaply without your vet... many vets have a trouble telling some parasites apart in goat fecals I've been told.....you just send the sample in the mail:
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=14929.0 I deworm my girls at 100 days bred with Ivermectin PLUS (it's an injectable, but you give it orally and it contains a flukecide that regular Ivermectin does not). I did my girls, then repeated in 10 days. On the day my does kid, they get Quest Horse Gel... I empty 2 tubes into a glass jar, mix well to ensure the active ingredient is evenly distributed in the gel and dose at 1/4cc per 25lbs. I do this the day they kid, and repeat 10 days later. If you have a large group of goats you can use Cydectin instead of Quest..same active ingredient, just dosed differently. It may not hurt to go pick up some Red Cell just in case your does are showing signs of annemia.... Don't feel too bad....my vet says the goats only need to be wormed 2x's a year with Safeguard :rolleyes: I just nod, smile and inwardly sigh with relief that I know better and am thankful I have Ivermectin Plus and Quest on hand ;) |
If it is meningeal worm in the spine, when it dies it puts out a toxin that causes inflamation thus pain so the protocol is to use Dexamethasone for swelling and Banamine for pain. Then because of this stress the goat is put on antibiotics for pneumonia. Doing a search at Dairy Goat Info on Meningeal worm will give a better idea how to tackle this.
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It's on the page I referenced above. I don't think she wants to throw all those meds into a pregnant doe unless she's more sure it's meningeal worm.
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I may be doing the worming all wrong; but it has been working for me.
When I suspected meningeal worms, I used an "oral" dose of Cydectin "first"; then I used Ivermectin "Plus" INJECTED; followed that in a few days with another "injected" dose of Ivermectin "Plus"; then followed that in a few days with another "oral" dose of Cydectin. The difference in health became obvious! (I did it this way because I had read somewhere that a large "oral" dose of some wormer had caused a huge amount of worms to clog the intestinal tract, causing more complications for the owner. By using the oral first, waiting a few days, then "injecting" the other wormer, the injected medication reached worms an oral dose could not and got rid of those, flushing them out of the system. After that I could use another oral wormer. It was important to me to keep the goat's system flushed as he was being so heavily dewormed.) |
How are her eyelids? I would take a fecal sample to the vet when you go to get the Bo-Se injectable for her. Then hopefully the vet will be able to tell you what kind of worms your dealing with.
So far we've never had a problem with meningeal worms but I'm wondering if they show up on a fecal, Alice or some of the others here might know the answer to that one. How many days bred is your doe? |
I don't *think* meningeal worms show up in fecal tests, but don't quote me on that.
My suspicions are that she's very anemic. It's also very possible that she simply has a back injury from goat bashing like they do. :( |
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/deerworm.html
Diagnosis Meningeal worm infection cannot be diagnosed in the live animal. A fecal examination is not useful since sheep and goats are “dead end” hosts for the parasite and the larvae do not produce eggs or pass larvae into the feces. The parasites cannot be detected by blood testing. The only way to confirm diagnosis is to find the parasite in the nervous system, which requires a necropsy examination. Testing the cerebrospinal fluid, which requires the animal to be tranquilized or anesthetized for extraction, may help to support suspicions of brain worm infection. |
Her eyelids are pale. Not white, but pale. She is definitely anemic. I checked the others, and they all look pretty pale, even though the rest of them seem perfectly healthy. I have ordered some ivermectin to give them just so I can take some action ASAP, and I will give the vet a call and see if that seems like a better option than the mail order fecal test (which I'm guessing might take a couple weeks to get results back)
She is at least 100 days pregnant, but this is my doe who was accidentally bred early due to fencing mishaps with our buck in the Fall, so I don't have an exact due date. I am thinking any time now, she started bagging up about 3 weeks ago. |
At least 100 days bred you can worm her with Ivermectin. The Ivermectin Plus works on more different worms than the regular Ivermectin if you can get the Plus. Mine is in injectable form but you still give it to the goats orally.
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I dropped off a fecal at the vet's office today. They said they should call me with results by the end of the week. I will worm everyone with ivermectin as soon as it comes in the mail, I ordered it last night. We'll see what the test results say.
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End of the week???
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that's what they said :(
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Mine would do mine the same day if I needed it. I think I would be looking around for a new vet. Maybe ask some of your neighbors or folks that you know have some type of livestock who their vets are.
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This is literally the ONLY large animal vet within probably 75 miles. I have never heard of another, neither have farmers in the area who have lived here for generations. Most of the farmers around here do their own veterinary work, and if an animal gets really sick, it gets culled. People who keep livestock animals as "pets" (which people tell me I am bordering on, since I have put so much time, money and effort into trying to help this doe, when several people have told me to butcher her) use the vet that I am using.
Last time they came out when Mama Red (said doe) was down and could not stand up, I was charged $160 to have 2 tests run and a few doses of banamine. Both tests came back negative. My own independent research has been a lot more helpful than the vet's advice, unfortunately. And I am 99% sure that there are no other large animal vets in the area, although I will keep looking. |
Just so you know, you aren't alone. There aren't many good goat vets out there. We come here, read goat books, do google searches, and treat our goats based on what we learn online.
If he'll give you the meds you need, that's probably all you can expect. Huggs, Alice |
Thanks. I asked about the BO-Se when I was there, too. They said they didn't have it. They also don't carry any kind of copper supplement, which is why I was panicking on here a couple weeks ago looking for a single dose of copper bolus (THANK YOU Cannon Farms!).
I ordered a vitamin e/selenium supplement from jeffers, it's in a gel syringe. I hope that will work, at least better than nothing if not as well as the injectible. |
Ask the vet to ORDER you a whole bottle of BoSe. Most vets don't carry it, but I've found they will order a bottle for me. Keep it in the fridge and it will last a couple of years.
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Will the gel syringe that I ordered be ok in place of the BO-Se? It's made specifically for goats.
Why is it that the injectible dewormer is ineffective in goats? Last summer, when we had one that died from parasites (hadn't had her for a week, they all came off the other farm full of parasites, we had no idea) the other 3 that we got from the same farm (Mama Red and 2 bucklings) were all very weak with parasites. They were given the injectible (I am pretty sure it was Ivomec) and all seemed to recover. How is that possible? |
The worms are in the gut so orally would put the wormer in direct contact with the worms without going through the blood system.
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I know if you look up goat mites they reccomend using the Ivermectin Plus Injectable actully injected SQ to get rid of the mites.
For most worms or parasites though goats do much better on any wormer no matter if it is pour on or injectible if it is given to them orally. I have always thought it was because they have such a high metabolism is why there better given that way. Maybe Alice or 1 of the others can explain it better. I always give my goats their wormers orally(doesn't matter injectable or pour on). |
I bought the college textbook on sheep and goats, and it says to give them orally. So, that's what I do! :)
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