The more things I find out I don't know....

6e · #21 03/13/11, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kshobbit

There is so much to learn and it changes all the time. I started out in 1976 and have been learning ever since then. I am still learning.
My buck stays with the does almost all the time. I keep the young does separate from the older does. I de-worm after they kid, in 2 to 3 weeks later, and again right before breeding time. I only give them C/D& T immunizations.
I have 6 first fresheners and I threw away the calender that would have given me an idea of when they will kid!!!
I agree that you should find a mentor for on the spot advice. Back in the day, there were tons of local goat clubs and they were great for work shops and seminars but where have they gone?
I had a local guy bring his kids over for disbudding. We talked about disbudding irons and constructing the disbudding box. He had the biggest 2 week old Sannen buckling that I have ever seen and his horns were tremendous. The kid stopped breathing while I was in the process and scared the begeebers out of me. I have done mouth to mouth on a goat before but thank goodness, he came out of the box and was breathing. He will have scurs. Goats are a lesson in life.

Stopped breathing while being disbudded?

That would scare the c*** out of me!!! I would probably never be able to disbud another goat again if that happens to me. LOL

Backfourty,MI. · #22 03/13/11, 07:27 PM

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?P...1&topic=8934.0

This is a great link to the different kinds of worms & what wormers work best for them. It tell's about worming pregnant does' etc.

Don't give up on this years kidding season, things may work out just fine. When we first started in goats we knew litterally nothing about them other than DH wanted a goat for a pet. Well we got 1 alright.....A Buck was our first goat. He was a really nice buck, well of course they can't be alone we find out so we get a doe. Well of course they lived together so then we had a baby! All this time I still didn't know squat except to feed them & I probly wasn't feeding them the right feed at that time.

Well we are way past that now & on to other kinds of goats & we love them. I will say this forum & everyone here are GREAT. We've had goats now for about 6 years & I know without this forum I would have surely lost a couple over the last few years.

I do give CD & T shots every year, I think anyone that doesn't is nuts, the medicine itself & the syringes are a very minimal cost for something that most likely will save your animals.
I don't do Bo_Se shots or any other vaccinations. I only give antibiotics if they have an infection & need them.

I make sure they have a good loose cattle mineral available 24/7 in an area that keep it dry. Grass/alfafa mix hay 24/7 & probly more treats or grain than I'm sure they need.

I do keep my bucks penned away from my girls(ever since our 1st goat-the buck). I like to have breeding dates, etc.

All the goat information can be overwhelming but once you get the hang of it, it's not so bad.

If you have a local fair, 4H club or things like that I would check with them for someone you may hit it off with & may become a good goat friend or mentor.

Creamers · #23 03/13/11, 07:53 PM

Quote:

I've always just thought to myself, "they're goats, tougher than a boot and can get by with a few weeds to gnaw on."

This is the stereotype about goats I try my hardest to dispel. My vet has a saying about goats, though it is usually applied to sheep, "Sick goats seldom survive" - they taught it in vet school - lol.

Safeguard was safe to give, but it isn't effective. Don't bother using it.

Check inner eyelid color for a when to worm guide - dark pink or red? They are find - it not, use quest, cydectin, valbazen or zimectrin gold. . . don't give those to pregnant does - use Ivomec plus orally - worm does the day after kidding

Ask your vet for BO-SE and buy some copper from the person on here who sells it - I mix my own, you can do that, too - - -

When you get the BO-SE and Copper, give it - see how they look, you might need it again in 6 months, if not, wait a year. . .

Buy a high quality loose mineral - not one for sheep - but for cattle or/and goats. . . Sweetlix meat maker or Cargill right now onxy - salt and mineral blocks will NOT DO.

Use Dimethoxx on kids from about 6 weeks through 6 months - give orally for 5 days every 21 does for cocci whether you see signs or it OR NOT.

I've PMed you my goat guide, too -lol

francismilker · #24 03/13/11, 08:58 PM

Thanks so much for all the help folks.

On the issue regarding the ram and billy fighting: The triplet kids that didn't make it were all out an Alpine doe and Alpine buck I'm fairly confident. (At least they all looked totally like Alpine in their markings and color.)

As far as copper deficiency: I checked today when I woke up from working nightshift and (Most) of them have the tale-tale signs of it, ie; fish tails, hair off color, and small bald spots on the tops of their heads between their horns.
How long after giving copper boluses would you say it will take to see a change? And how often do I give the boluses right at the start to get enough in their system? And, is it safe for pregnant does? Once I get their system lined out is loose, high quality goat minerals adequate?

The Tin Mom · #25 03/13/11, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francismilker

The problem for me getting a mentor is that the folks I know who have a goat or "goats" are ol' timers who only have one old milk goat out back which they milk. They still have the mentality that I mentioned in an above post, (they're goats, they can live off brush, weeds, and junk mail".)

When I ask them what to worm with they're liable to tell me chewing tobacco.

The other form of mentor around here comes in the ever growing population of boer show goat raisers. (Boer showing is getting quite popular here.) It's not uncommon to see a good show doeling sell for $1000!!!! That's right, ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS! Some sell for even more. I'm not against someone having good stock and all but I feel an animal is worth only what it can be sold for with it's God-given intended purpose in mind. For milk or for meat..........that is the question of worth for me!

These show goat raisers are very, very, very tight with suggestions. I feel that maybe they're afraid someone's going to get an edge on them in the show ring or at an auction for prospective show animals. I've even seen a wether weighing in at a whopping 35lbs. sell last Fall for $1750..............

I don't have a vet in my area that really specializes in goats. (Although my large animal vet is a wealth of information and very helpful at giving advice.) The others that just have a pasture full of goats they keep for clearing brush don't treat for anything you guys have mentioned. I've heard them talk about giving a CD&T vaccine, but that's about it.

I know there's someone around here somewhere, I just haven't met them yet. For now, keep the suggestions coming. I've got a lot to learn. Thanks all and God Bless!

Oh. Man. I read your post and thought - do you live in SE KS - sounds exactly like it is here!! Our 4H leader sold a boar goat for $1200 about 2 years ago. Now I see that you are in Oklahoma! LOL!

Sorry I can't be more help - the best I can do is say give it time and keep hanging around this forum. It has taken me 2.5 years & the life of a very sweet goat, but finally I have:

The breeder I purchased my herd from (a wonderful resource and one I highly recommend)
Our 4H leader - who raises incredible boar goats and is a wealth of information - just keep in mind that meat goats and dairy goats have different metabolic needs.
My HT Dairy Goat advisors.
A very good friend that knows goats and thinks very much as I do regarding their care. Have to mention that this wonderful lady was someone I met here on HT.
My Nubian friend - who really knows goats, raises "Premier Dairy Herd" and Grand Champs, & is an incredible help. Meeting her was a very fortunate accident.
A vet who prefers to treat "small ruminants" and can answer questions regarding goats off the top of his head - plus makes house calls.

I have done more in the last month than I ever thought I would do. You can do it, too! The great folks here on this forum will help you!

francismilker · #26 03/13/11, 09:25 PM

Our 4-H leader is a producer of some of these high priced boers. He has nephews and nieces that show his products so getting information out of him without letting him think you're trying to gain a "winning advantage" is like pulling hen's teeth. The nephews are seniors this year, so maybe it will get better once they stop showing.

I actually read somewhere last year that you could give vitamin B to show goats to help improve feed utilization and muscle structure development. I asked the instructor about it and got the answer of, "Oh no, don't do that! It's against the rules." Problem is: There's 3 bottles of vet prescribed vitamin B in his classroom refrigerator! lol........

Sometimes we get so excited about winning we can't see the forrest through the trees!!!

Personally, I'm just trying to raise a healthy herd of mixed meat/dairy goats. There's no milk goat showing around here except for an open show at the fall county fair. (Which usually produces my son a blue ribbon for Grand Dairy Doe since he's the only one showing. lol...)

Meat goat showing is what is King down this way and there's a lot of it. There's literrally a show to go to every weekend within driving distance and the competition is very tough. I want my son to show if he wants to and hopefully develop some pretty good mixed stock to take to the local sale barn a few times per year. The prices of meat and milk goats are what I consider good right now.

BTW, I'm pretty fond of the goat milk as well!!!!!!!

The Tin Mom · #27 03/13/11, 09:36 PM

LOL! Are you sure you don't live in SE KS? It really sounds familiar!! Only, our 4H leader is a wonderful source of information - assuming that you keep in mind the milk goat/ meat goat difference.

Goat milk and goat cheese are the best!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by francismilker

Our 4-H leader is a producer of some of these high priced boers. He has nephews and nieces that show his products so getting information out of him without letting him think you're trying to gain a "winning advantage" is like pulling hen's teeth. The nephews are seniors this year, so maybe it will get better once they stop showing.

I actually read somewhere last year that you could give vitamin B to show goats to help improve feed utilization and muscle structure development. I asked the instructor about it and got the answer of, "Oh no, don't do that! It's against the rules." Problem is: There's 3 bottles of vet prescribed vitamin B in his classroom refrigerator! lol........

Sometimes we get so excited about winning we can't see the forrest through the trees!!!

Personally, I'm just trying to raise a healthy herd of mixed meat/dairy goats. There's no milk goat showing around here except for an open show at the fall county fair. (Which usually produces my son a blue ribbon for Grand Dairy Doe since he's the only one showing. lol...)

Meat goat showing is what is King down this way and there's a lot of it. There's literrally a show to go to every weekend within driving distance and the competition is very tough. I want my son to show if he wants to and hopefully develop some pretty good mixed stock to take to the local sale barn a few times per year. The prices of meat and milk goats are what I consider good right now.

BTW, I'm pretty fond of the goat milk as well!!!!!!!

Oat Bucket Farm · #28 03/13/11, 10:02 PM

We are lucky that we were able to finally find a vet who knows goats and what they need. And HT is a wonderful place and I have a couple of people on here that I consider good friends.

francismilker · #29 03/17/11, 10:35 AM

Thanks so much for all your help folks. I appreciate the input.

smwon · #30 03/19/11, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francismilker

As mentioned in several previous posts, I'm pretty new to goat raising. I'm finding after more and more reading here that I'm not doing a very good job of animal husbandry by some standards.

Besides dumping some feed in front of them and keeping hay out, I've only wormed them.

What I'm wondering is: Is there some kind of goat care 101 manual that will give me protocols and times of year to give certain drugs and do preventative treatments?

I recently had my first doe to freshen with three doe kids. (lost all three kids)
It led me to thinkin about how I'd wormed her with Safeguard (thinking it was OK to worm a pregnant doe with) and I wonder if my worming her didn't cause the fetuses to stop growing and die. (Two of the three were way under developed.)

I've been following these threads about copper deficiency and CAE and all the sorts and am wondering if all of this could be a problem for me.

Up until this point in my animal care, (which has been all my life), I've always just thought to myself, "they're goats, tougher than a boot and can get by with a few weeds to gnaw on."

Someone give me a short tutorial link or lesson on protocol of taking care of goats from the time I bring them home to doing my periodical maintenance if you don't mind. After reading about the dull coats and fish tails on copper deficiency I'm quite sure my whole herd needs copper. Because of my illiteracy of different wormers and their effectiveness during pregnancy I don't think that any of my girls have been properly wormed.

Thanks.......

Personally I would get Pat Coleby's book Natural Goat Care and read it several time...