Grass/forage-fed only for dairy goats?

Our Little Farm · #21 02/15/11, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birch Hill Farm

Sounds to me like we need to be breeding and selecting back toward a more self sufficient goat.

Otter · #22 02/15/11, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birch Hill Farm

Sounds to me like we need to be breeding and selecting back toward a more self sufficient goat.

You can have a self-sufficient goat - OR - you can have a gallon of milk a day for 10 months or more- OR - you can spend a lot of time and effort improving and rotating pastures and making halage and growing alfalfa so that technically your goats are "grass fed only" (you still won't get a gallon a day for 10 month lactation)

But as far as a "self-sufficient goat" in that you can put her in your 1 acre field and bring her in and milk her twice a day for 10 months and have all the milk you can drink, plus make a little cheese, plus feed her kids and she does it until right before she kids again? Not happening.

Not trying to be mean or rain on someone's parade. But that's a lot to ask from an animal and there's no way they can do it. I also can't have a horse who can herd cattle 10 hours a day in the high country, throw a different saddle on him and win the Kentucky Derby. It's why we have different breeds, because some are strong in the areas others are weak in - but nobody's strong in everything.

kirkmcquest · #23 02/15/11, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bfly Farmer

We run a mainly pastured raised operation. We use rotational grazing, haylage, alfalfa, high quality mineral, and bolusing (2-3 times a year) in order to maintain condition and milk quality/quantify. Grain is only given as a treat.

As those previously have stated, it really depends on the quality/amount of pasture, genetics, and your expectations. Our commercial herd is comprised of San Clementes which have not be improved like the traditional dairy breeds. Also, we breed/cull heavily for those who do well on pasture only.

For our farm, it has worked well, but we knew this was our goal and planned accordingly. I can easily see where it would not suit others. You need to weigh the pros and cons for yourself.

Good luck!

Yes the San Clementes are those wild goats that were recently taken off of an Island...they are supposedly pretty rare but my guess is that those would be the best breed for 'forage only'. As the OP has expressed that he is not interested in maximum milk production, keeping san clementes on well maintained pasture might be the answer??

Creamers · #24 02/15/11, 03:55 PM

Quote:

You can have a self-sufficient goat - OR - you can have a gallon of milk a day for 10 months or more- OR - you can spend a lot of time and effort improving and rotating pastures and making halage and growing alfalfa so that technically your goats are "grass fed only" (you still won't get a gallon a day for 10 month lactation)

Exactly - YOU WILL not breed a grass fed only goat that produces enough to be worth you while.

madness · #25 02/15/11, 06:41 PM

I thought about this awhile back and actually found some real research on the idea from Langston University.

http://www.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/hart02.pdf

The conclusion was that the grain did increase milk production but not dramatically. I was surprised. I think this is an ongoing study (it was 2 years when this was published) but I haven't found an update yet.

Heritagefarm · #26 02/15/11, 09:02 PM

We have compared the costs of grain feeding and grass feeding, and even with the lowered production, it would be relatively easy to make the same or more money with grass feeding. There is also the fact that the milk will likely contain more CLA, a potent anti-carcinogen. Though compared to the output level per amount of body mass, the additional level of grain could cause a more productive level per amount of input, i.e., more output per input. Of course, if the same principle is applied to grassfeeding, the lowered input which results in somewhat lower production would result in a more profitable arrangement.

Pony · #27 02/15/11, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

We have compared the costs of grain feeding and grass feeding, and even with the lowered production, it would be relatively easy to make the same or more money with grass feeding. There is also the fact that the milk will likely contain more CLA, a potent anti-carcinogen. Though compared to the output level per amount of body mass, the additional level of grain could cause a more productive level per amount of input, i.e., more output per input. Of course, if the same principle is applied to grassfeeding, the lowered input which results in somewhat lower production would result in a more profitable arrangement.

Have you figured in the time/expense of getting the pasture up to snuff so that it will meet the minimum requirements for basic herd maintenance? And at what point will you be able to maintain a pregnant or lactating doe in optimal health on pasture alone?

My first concern is the health of my animals; a very close second is production. I know that the soil around here would take a few seasons of work before it produces the sort of nutrient-rich feed my heavy-bred dairy girls require.

While it's always a good idea to feed the soil and get it into top-notch shape, I'm not about to sacrifice health and production in the meantime.

Otter · #28 02/15/11, 10:51 PM

And also keep the genetic predisposition of your individual animals in mind. As Pony and others pointed out - if the girls you have are bred for heavy production, yes, they will adjust production down if their optimum nutritional requirements aren't met - but not to a level that is healthy for them.
They will "milk off their backs". Their bodies will rob them of resources to meet what their genes tell them is needed for their baby's survival. Because basically that's what milk is and it is basic survival to keep the offspring alive.

Even in humans. My grandmother assumed she'd loose a tooth per pregnancy. Her body needed calcium and "stole" it from her bones. We have access now to better nutrition and a better understanding of the stresses of pregnancy and lactation. If you have a doe that is bred for high performance - that gallon a day - and you put her out on pasture, maybe you think, "well ok. I'm getting a half gallon a day and that's all I need and I'm not spending on feed." But your doe has singletons, rough labors and succumbs to milk fever at age 7 - besides the moral viewpoint, what has that really done to your bottom line?

If you want low input and understand that you will not have maximum output, be sure to get goats that will thrive in that system. Which are not the does bred for high milk production.
Sadly, too many people call goats that will thrive under the low-input, lower-output system "scrub" or "brush" goats and there's a stigma attached. But they're the ones you need to make it work with happy, healthy goats.
But they are out there, lots of them, you don't have to hunt down rare, island goats. Your everyday PygmyNubianBoerAlpineSpanishX will work fine.

Heritagefarm · #29 02/15/11, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Have you figured in the time/expense of getting the pasture up to snuff so that it will meet the minimum requirements for basic herd maintenance? And at what point will you be able to maintain a pregnant or lactating doe in optimal health on pasture alone?

My first concern is the health of my animals; a very close second is production. I know that the soil around here would take a few seasons of work before it produces the sort of nutrient-rich feed my heavy-bred dairy girls require.

While it's always a good idea to feed the soil and get it into top-notch shape, I'm not about to sacrifice health and production in the meantime.

Absolutely, absolutely. I understand your concerns perfectly, for they are indeed concerns around here. You see so many junipers (the ones called cedars) and that broomsedge, which represent poor, acidic soil. We tried the 100% grassfed on our land, pght, forget that, it will take several years before our land is up to par to sustain 100% grassfed. Now, once the soil is nourished back into health, like an ill kid, it will be fully capable of supporting lactating and pregant animals with proper genetics and managment. Most cows are bred for grain supplement; stick them on 100% pasture and they don't thrive. Dairy goats bred on high grain inputs and pampered to death will also not fare well in such a situation.

Heritagefarm · #30 02/15/11, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Sadly, too many people call goats that will thrive under the low-input, lower-output system "scrub" or "brush" goats and there's a stigma attached. But they're the ones you need to make it work with happy, healthy goats.
But they are out there, lots of them, you don't have to hunt down rare, island goats. Your everyday PygmyNubianBoerAlpineSpanishX will work fine.

A meat cross goat like that would give you squat for milk. Too many people think grass-fed animals is an impossibility and have good production; it is.

Creamers · #31 02/15/11, 11:42 PM

I think the best option for pasture based milk is a dexter or other dual purpose cow . . .

Wags · #32 02/16/11, 12:58 AM

I don't give my Nigerian Dwarf does grain - they do get alfalfa pellets, minerals and whatever they browse in the pasture. Their milk productions would easily earn them milking stars. (Something I plan to do this year.)

An article comparing grass fed to grain fed production, etc...
http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/libra...ld/hart02.html

Quote:

In conclusion, dairy goats on pasture can have acceptable levels of milk production with some minor changes in milk composition, especially where grain supplementation is absent. Grazing dairy goats requires additional management demands, especially for the pasture. In areas with quite dry summers, irrigation may be necessary to insure an uninterrupted supply of forage. Internal parasites need to be monitored and controlled. For the production of organic milk or high milk high in conjugated linoleic acid, goats may produce significant levels of milk from high quality pasture alone. Pasture may offer potential for producing cheese with unique flavors.

And another article on how to set up a grazing system for goats: http://www.sweetlix.com/media/docume...s/Goat_007.pdf

sammyd · #33 02/16/11, 08:03 AM

why is feeding grain equated with not being self sufficient?
Half an acre of grain has lots of possibilities.

and with the pasture recommended in that university pdf you will be buying in lots of annual grass seed any way like annual lespedeza and cow peas.

there is a vast difference in managed grazing for production and just turning them out in whatever is available

Otter · #34 02/16/11, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

A meat cross goat like that would give you squat for milk.

LOL, I didn't mean an actual cross like that. I meant that no one wants to say to a buyer "Uh, I don't know what kind it is. We just kept the ones we like that do ok here." so if it is chunky with floppy ears they call it a BoerX, lean and floppy a NubianX, gray with horns it's a PygmyX, etc.
The goat is no such thing.
Like your average ShepherdX at the pound, it comes from many generations who's "mother's never married" But (unintentionally perhaps) those are the goats who've been selected to thrive with low input. But go out and try to buy goats who are "just mutts who do fine with just pasture". You can't find them. People want to call them at least part of some breed.

stanb999 · #35 02/16/11, 12:09 PM

You can raise on just pasture... If

you have lush pasture 10+ months a year while they are milking.
you have the ability to get top shelf hay.
you manage them heavily and cull hard keeping your numbers down to what can easily be maintained.

Most of us fail in the above in some regard. Grain is the crutch that cures many feeding ills. Also the fact is top quality hay will cost you more than cheap hay and a bit of grain. Here hay is very cheap... like 3 dollars a bale for good stuff. But 2-3 pounds of grain is cheap too. like 30 cents or so. I could feed a half a bale and 5 pounds of grain or a whole bale... which is cheaper? You tell me.

arcticow · #36 02/16/11, 01:36 PM

I would advise going back and reading some of the records for milk in Britian during the late 1930's and WW2. Most of these were made on pasture, hay and root crops. Not much grain was fed, except as oat hay. Very respectable milk production, IMHO.

Pony · #37 02/16/11, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcticow

I would advise going back and reading some of the records for milk in Britian during the late 1930's and WW2. Most of these were made on pasture, hay and root crops. Not much grain was fed, except as oat hay. Very respectable milk production, IMHO.

Root crops.

That would be in addition to hay, so not JUST hay, right?

I intend to plant mangel and other root crops this year. Got a much better idea of how to feed it after watching Edwardian Farm.

arcticow · #38 02/16/11, 06:16 PM

In addition to hay, and pasture or cut green feed. Grain was either too expensive, or rationed into the latter war years. Now, if someone would start building root choppers again...