1st kidding... -7 degrees tonight--help!
 

We had triplets tonight, the coldest night for weeks. (Of course!) They were all born easily and were big and strong, but we didn't have a way to get/keep them warm--even having a hard time getting them dry before the moisture froze on them. They are now in our basement. :(

First off, we weren't really prepared for this...we have been milking for at least 18 months, but hadn't experienced kidding yet, though we read as much as possible about it all. This doe is one we got last fall, a purebred Toggenburg who gave more than a gallon. Trouble is, she was running free with a buck at her previous home, and we had no idea when/if she was bred.

So the good thing is that we now have two nice doelings from her (the buck we did not keep, since only good breeding stock is salable around here). But I am worried about the others. We could not get them to nurse at all, and they were getting too cold, so we had to bring them inside. Bottle feeding did not go much better, even with some experience with that. Both of them are now warm and sleeping soundly, nearly four hours after birth. We could only get two ounces of colostrum in them, at best, with the last attempt about 1.5 hours ago. Can they make it four more hours, when dh gets up at 5:30am? I will probably just have to be up for a while, since I don't really expect a reply in time.

Other questions: Since the weather will not be balmy here any time soon, now that we've brought them in, how/when do I go about introducing them back to the cold? Trouble is, our basement is heated, with the coolest part being at least 67 degrees. And when they do eventually go back out, how will the others, including mom (five does)respond to them? The only way to separate them in our small goat shed is to give them a tiny 3x5' "stall" off the milking area.

Oh and one more...this probably sounds ridiculous, but if they're gonna be in here a while...can I eventually give them a bath? The mom/us were not able to get them cleaned well enough before everything started freezing, and so they are still quite crusty in places.

I would appreciate any advice, stories, similar experiences like ours!!! Thanks a bunch!

Put mom in basement with them.

Brush out the crusties. Do not bathe them in this weather!

All I tell you is I have never had babies in the house. Mine have a barn warm and draft free. That is all they need. Mom will lick till dry, that is how they bond. She will snuggle with them to keep them warm.
As far as milk goes I am sure they will wake up when hungry. I would NOT bath them you will be removing any scent of mom they have and she might not take them back. If it were me I would have brought mom in with them. Now you can only hope she accepts them. I would bring them back out as soon as possible before she forgets about them. Unless you want to bottle raise them of course.

My experience usually is that once we take them in the house, unless they were really well bonded at birth is that they forget between the time we took them in and the time we take the baby back out. So, we usually count on them being bottle babies once we bring them in and here, with -9 temps, all the bottle babies are in the house. I'd rather they put their energy into growing than shivering and staying warm, but our barn is not insulated and gets COLD. So, that makes a big difference in what we do. I second bringing mama in. We've had full size sheep in our laundry room to save babies. Better than walking out and finding lambs frozen to the ground which has also happened. What a mess!

It's not too unusual for babies to just drink a couple ounces and sleep for a while. They should wake up hungry and want to drink more. If these were my kids, I'd raise them as bottle babies. They are much tamer and easy to deal with when it come times to breed and milk them and also makes them easier to sell as breeding stock. I would keep them inside for a couple weeks, gradually introducing them to their outdoor stall on warmer days. I have a seperate pen and stall for my bottle babies. They do not get introduced to the main herd until after they are weaned at 5 or more months old.

Crazy morning. To complicate things, our young (indoor) dog decided to choose today to have puppies...and she somehow managed to hurt her foot last night. It isn't swollen or broken, but she won't stand on it. She is panting and appears to be starting labor. (She was due any day). So we have her to watch out for, along with our own young children.

Kids are still not taking a nipple. Can't even hardly get them to swallow when it is dribbled into the mouth. That said, they aren't lethargic, and aren't acting abnormal in any other way.

Basement not an option to bring mom in. We only have one room available, and that is our office for the family business. Fine for the kids right now, but not for a full grown goat. We are trying to get something set up in the garage up by the house sectioned off with hay bales for mom & babies. Dh is setting up heat lamps and I cut the sleeves off a thick wool sweater to put on the kids when we bring them out, hopefully asap. Will that scent confuse mom?

Mom is crying for them, so that is a good sign. What other things can we give to them and or mom?

Gotta go, thanks!

Be sure to secure the bales or put up a panel in front of them to keep them from falling on the kids.

Good luck!

Success! Mom and kids are in garage bonding. Both kids have nursed, and mom is eagerly licking, sniffing, talking to them, etc. Kids have the sweaters on and aren't shivering yet.

Now the concern is the doe. She looks/acts fine, except there is another placenta hanging out. We thought it all came out last night, but now it is 15 hours later and still another one to go. Now what? Is it already dangerous to have taken this long? Dh just left for work; he stayed until the last possible minute, but had to go, and I don't have a vehicle to go for any other supplies. I have loads of herbs, is there something I should give her?

Oh yeah, what temperature should I be striving for? Don't want them to be too warm, either.

I'd say you are seeing afterbirth. Doe is fine.

Take sweater off during day and put on at night, they just need a draft free shelter and mom's body heat. They will not regulate their temp for a few days so that is the dangerous time.

daytime temp here 20 right now; tonight will be around 8 degrees. They are enclosed safely with mom. Should I be turning off the heat lamps? On again at night?

If they are in the garage with mom I would definitely turn off heat lamp, don't get me started.

I put a hot water bottle under an old towel if the nights or days are too cold when we have kids, the kids learn real fast where to snuggle & momma snuggles right next to them.

So glad to hear the kids & mom are together & doing well, I am one of those folks that think it's best to dam raise kids if possible.

Sounds like afterbirth hanging out of mom to me, it is fine, let it be & it will come off when ready. The kids nursing will also help move that process along.

Oh & congratulions on the 2 new doelings & puppies!

We do LOVE pictures here though & even the puppy pictures we would love to see!

Second the hot water bottle. I use old laundry detergent bottles. Sturdy, won't leak, and hold the heat well.

Lamps + hay = danger!

Keep us posted on how the little family is doing (and how's your pup doing?)

Thanks for all your quick advice! Everyone is doing well, air temps are better, heat is off. So glad we didn't have to raise them!

No puppies yet. It looks like she was panting and in distress from her injury. We wrapped it with a comfrey/plantain/mullein fomentation and she's up and acting normal today. Hope it heals completely before labor begins!

First hour in the house
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...durie2/101.jpg

Yesterday, reunited with mom
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...urie2/110a.jpg

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...urie2/107a.jpg

Gorgeous babies!

Glad it turned out well for you

Oh so cute! Congrats on the healthy goat family!

Love the sweaters! So glad everything turned out well!

I put one of those pet igloos in with mine. They will all pile in there and it really heats up, plus Mom cannot accidently sleep on top of them. The cat size one is perfect for twins or triplets.

Such beautiful little does. Thanks for the pictures. I love Toggenburg milk!!!

Sounds like you did everything just right! Congratulations!

They look so happy! So cute

Thanks! I've been in bed since Friday night with aches and fever...guess too many late nights wearing me down! Goat family is still doing great; I am hoping to bring them back to others this week. Should I keep them seperate from the rest at first? I only have a small 4'x6' spot seperate from the rest in the goat shed that they could go into.

Still no pups, but the foot and joint seem nearly better after changing the fomentation 2x/day. Hope she gives me at least one more day before more excitement begins!

Those are beautiful little babies & I love the sweaters!

Great idea Pony, Thanks! I haven't had any of my water bottles leak yet but I only have 2 hot water bottles & 4 does that are due to kid in 4 consectutive days in April so was going to buy 2 more!

Darling Darling pictures!!! Those sweaters are just too cute! Congrats to you :) :)

Beautiful babies...love the sweaters as well...I always cut off the sleeves on mine for days like this when they got all ragged...babies will be warm....and they just look so cute...

I'm back! :) Another very long night....and we have puppies! First one born 1:30 this morn, last after 7:00 a.m. I never expected seven from our 32-lb Blue Heeler, and certainly not all of them being 12-14 ounces! (Father is a larger G. Shepherd/Border Collie/wolf mix.) She did great, and they are all warm and happy. I look forward to finding them homes and watching them as they develop to see what they'll look like. The parents are such wonderfully sweet, smart dogs, I think the two combined will be even better, mellowing the Heeler part. (Don't we all say that about our own pets and kids? lol. But 'tis true!)

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...PippisPups.jpg

Daddy

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/...ie2/Willow.jpg

Adorable puppies & beautiful parents too!

Yep. Bit of wolf in that dad alright. Interesting mix, that one. How is he/she around your goats? The cross would make me a shy bit nervous.

(former Heeler owner. never again!)

We probably should make this discussion short since this *is* a goat forum after all. :)

The wolf mix is 45% Border Collie, 30% wolf, 25% G. Shepherd. He is a very gentle loving dog (must be the collie coming through) and really a big baby. He also has the softness of the collie in his coat, not coarse, like the heeler. He is interested in the goats like any dog, but doesn't bother them at all. (Or the chickens & ducks when they are free.) The dogs always come right up to the milking area every time and watch and wait, making sure everything is just "so". Although we didn't really train any of them to herd, we did spend a lot of time when they were pups making sure they respected the livestock. So along with their human family, they apparently understand that they are to guard over us all. :) And we didn't really want working dogs...just nice pets who could be trusted around the animals and keep us all safe from unwanted intruders. Certainly not perfect in every way, but they suit us!

Our older dog (not pictured) is also 1/2 heeler, and the rest lab, wolf, and shepherd. (totally different parentage). She is an awesome dog. Very good with livestock and kids (except stray dogs and animals--she won't put up with anything--and that gives me peace of mind--we had lots of issues with strays before we had the dogs). So I think this puppy mix could be a lot like her.

I will say that our purebred heeler is definitely more wary of strangers than the other two and a bit more high-strung, but we love her anyway--she is very sweet and has taken the role as queen of the house (well maybe princess--I am queen, lol.) And amazingly to me, who swore I'd never have a dog in the house...she makes a great house dog--and never even needed to be house-trained! She instinctively knew from day one that she needed to do her business outside.

One more thing I especially appreciate of the shepherd/guard type breeds--no straying (though we do secure them when we leave home.) I know so many people who have dogs that could never be trusted to not take off when their backs are turned or couldn't be left to even do their business alone. Now those dog breeds probably have plenty of other merits, but they're not for us.

What are your experiences with Heelers, LFRJ? You can pm me if we shouldn't let this thread go too far South!

I wouldn't own another heeler unless I had about 20,000 head of ornery cattle to keep it busy 24/7/365. They never run out of energy and live up to their "heeler" name really well. Just not enough livestock that needs herding around my place for a heeler.

Now, an Australian shepherd/pyr cross; that's one awesome farm dog! Happened by accident when our 15 year old female aus. shep. was bred by our pyr that neglected the sheep for a few minutes. We wish we could raise them for sale now. They're very dedicated to caring for our livestock as well as really good around people and good watch dogs.

well I have to say I love little puppies all cuddled nursing...SO CUTE!!

I know I've read plenty about the potenial problems of heelers trying to herd everything, too much energy, etc., but our mixes have never been a problem for us. Definitely loyal and watchful, but I'm okay with that as I don't want a dog that is too trusting of strangers. They'll bark like crazy when someone comes onto the property, but when told to lay off and realize that the person is acceptable to us, they are fine. Now for the purebred, she is still young, but so far she is the same way; hopefully won't change for the negative. Right now she is content to be near us, taking part in all our activities, (and there are lots since we are home almost 24/7 with 8 kids!) but doesn't seem like she has "too much" energy to know what to do with. I don't deny that many (most?) others do require more...but in our case, we're a good fit. That all said, we never intended to breed the two....but unfortunately "life" happened, and our money that was to be used for fixing them both had to be used elsewhere. Then our valiant efforts to keep them apart for her first heat backfired when the 3yo let one of them out. :(

So I hope we can find people who are maybe a bit like us, that will appreciate the breed characteristics and fill a need for them!