Meningeal Worm - Itching and meds question

valsey · #21 02/01/11, 08:30 AM

He's not wobbly - very steady. No curvature either.

I'm reading about treatment in llamas and goats and a lot of the protocol seems to be panacur/fenbendazole. Seems that's the only wormer that can cross the blood brain barrier. Would that be different with goats?

valsey · #22 02/02/11, 09:11 AM

Can anyone help me with meds? I can order Dex, but I'm not sure which is the correct one. There is Dexamethasone Solution Injection 2mg/mL and Dexamethasone Sodium Phosphate I.V. Injection 4mg/mL. Do I want just the solution?

Pony · #23 09/20/14, 04:03 PM

Bumping this up for meningeal season.

Currently trying to find a good protocol to treat Trub, and maybe prophylactically treat the rest of the herd.

dozedotz · #24 09/20/14, 04:20 PM

Thanks, Pony!! Best of luck!

valsey · #25 09/20/14, 04:58 PM

I am the original poster of this thread and I am treating ANOTHER goat with MW right now. Third (possibly 4th) case. For preventative:

Tennessee Meat goat site:
The preventative treatment for goats showing no symptoms whatsoever involves a one-time oral dosing of 1% injectable ivermectin given orally dosing at 1 cc per 55 pounds of bodyweight, OR a one time oral dosing of Safeguard/Panacur dosing at 2.3 cc per 100 pounds of bodyweight (either suspension or paste). Ivermectin paste and Ivermectin pour-on are not effective. Using Ivermectin preventatively (prophylactically) or to treat pre-neurological symptoms is effective.

UGA vet:

Preventative strategies are recommended on farms with suspected meningeal worm issues. Ivermectin injectable (200 mg/kg SQ) every 4 weeks, or doramectin injections every 6 weeks, year-round, appears to effectively stop additional cases from developing. Oral or topical ivermectin will NOT work.

valsey · #26 09/20/14, 05:12 PM

There appears to be a new protocol for treating MW. I continue to use the advice from the UGA vet. My theory is that the ivermectin DOES do the trick here because my goats develop obvious migration tracts and I treat as soon as I see evidence of them. I assume I don't need a wormer that crosses the blood brain barrier at that stage. That said, I do follow-up the Ivermectin Plus with 3-5 days of Fenbendazole. You can see this in a recent thread I started here: I know what this is. Do you?

Tennessee Meat Goat Site

The curative treatment (treatment for infected goats displaying symptoms) has changed in 2013. Very high dosages of fenbenzadole (Safeguard/Panacur or equivalent) at a dosing rate of ten times the label dosage. Liquid Safeguard's label dose is 2.3 cc (ml) per 100 pounds bodyweight, which means that you must multiply this by 10 and dose at 23 cc (ml) per 100 pounds bodyweight. You can use Safeguard paste, also dosing at ten times the label's dosage rate based upon the goat's body weight. Treatment is given once a day for five consecutive days. Ivermectin was eliminated from the curative treatment protocol because researchers at Ohio State University found that it didn't penetrate the spinal column to kill the worms, so once neurological symptoms appeared, using Ivermectin was ineffective. If the goat is down and can't get up on its own, the chance for recovery is not good. An anti-inflammatory drug like Banamine can be useful in alleviating the inflammation of nerve tissue. Dexamethasone may also be used, but it will cause abortions in pregnant does.

From UGA vet:

Minimum 20 mg/kg oral dose Fenbendazole. It is the repeated doses over time that gives the benefit, not the mg/kg dose. I use the 20 mg/kg dose. Some colleagues prefer the 50 mg/kg dosage of fenbendazole.

I definitely recommend BOTH Fenbendazole and Ivermectin. Fenbendazole: 20 mg/kg daily by mouth for 7 days minimum; I have treated up to 21 days on really tough cases.

Ivomec: my typical dose for prevention/treatment in goats is 1 ml per 55 pounds (2X cattle/sheep dose) [I believe this was for 3 days in a row]

PLEASE NOTE - I REMEMBERED THE VET EMAILED ME WITH A CORRECTED DOSAGE FOR DEX, I HAVE UPDATED THIS INFO.
For the first 3 days, a 0.1 mg/kg dose of dexamethasone would be beneficial. The dose can then be decreased to 0.05 mg/kg for another 4 days, then go to every other day treatment for a few more days.

Pony · #27 09/21/14, 06:28 PM

Thank you, valsey!

Pony · #28 09/21/14, 06:31 PM

The rest of the herd and the flock are also thankful, as they don't need injections.

valsey · #29 09/21/14, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

The rest of the herd and the flock are also thankful, as they don't need injections.

Funny - we prefer injections here - much easier. Can't get a thing down their throats.

How is your goat doing?

Pony · #30 09/22/14, 09:42 AM

No worse, but the leg is still kind of ... there. She's still not bearing much weight on it, but it's not worse. She's not in pain, she's still hanging back from the rest of the herd.

Here's something interesting Nick noted: She's holding her tongue kind of funny. We both noticed it a few weeks ago, but really didn't think too much of it at the time.

Is not keeping her tongue all the way in her mouth one of the MW symptoms?

valsey · #31 09/22/14, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

She's holding her tongue kind of funny. We both noticed it a few weeks ago, but really didn't think too much of it at the time.

Is not keeping her tongue all the way in her mouth one of the MW symptoms?

VERY weird that you should mention that. About two months ago, one of my does was sticking her tongue out to one side. I thought she had had a stroke. After some researching, I concluded: Barber Pole worms. I thought maybe there was a swelling beginning (bottle jaw) to cause her to keep it out and to one side. I wormed her with a specific wormer for BP - I think it was 3 days in a row....she's fine now.

I'm not convinced that this is what it was. Perhaps it WAS meningeal worm, but her fecal did show a couple of BP. And she did not have the intense scratching either. Other than the tongue, perfectly normal. She never went down or showed weak in the back end.

Do you worm your goats regularly? I do not...just do fecals and worm as needed. Have you done a fecal on her poop?

Let me know if you want me to try to look back to notes on what I did

Pony · #32 09/22/14, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valsey

VERY weird that you should mention that. About two months ago, one of my does was sticking her tongue out to one side. I thought she had had a stroke. After some researching, I concluded: Barber Pole worms. I wormed her with a specific wormer for BP - I think it was 3 days in a row....she's fine now.

Perhaps it WAS meningeal worm, but her fecal did show a couple of BP. And she did not have the intense scratching either. Other than the tongue, perfectly normal.

Do you worm your goats regularly? I do not...just do fecals and worm as needed. Have you done a fecal on her poop?

Let me know if you want me to try to look back to notes on what I did

No, we don't do routine worming. If they become symptomatic, we'll do a fecal and treat with specific meds.

I could do a fecal, but the ivermec should resolve any BPW issue. 'Sides that, we regularly copper bolus. Everyone is pink, so I don't know if that's even an issue - still, the tongue thing is odd.

Farmer Jayne · #33 09/23/14, 06:48 AM

Pretty scary stuff. I don't expect to have this at home, where my goats are now. They have long ago eaten anything a deer might be interested in. However, we finally got our trailer finished and are planning on taking them on day trips to some leased property. It hasn't had any domestic animals on it for a couple of years, but I have seen deer.
I read that an oral dose of Ivermec plus is a good preventative. Anyone have any opinions or experience with this?
Valsey and Pony, thanks for this thread. It has been very informative. Hope your goats are doing well.

valsey · #34 09/23/14, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmer Jayne

Pretty scary stuff. I don't expect to have this at home, where my goats are now. They have long ago eaten anything a deer might be interested in. However, we finally got our trailer finished and are planning on taking them on day trips to some leased property. It hasn't had any domestic animals on it for a couple of years, but I have seen deer.
I read that an oral dose of Ivermec plus is a good preventative. Anyone have any opinions or experience with this?
Valsey and Pony, thanks for this thread. It has been very informative. Hope your goats are doing well.

I wouldn't count on that. They can pick it up off a fallen leaf.

I don't have enough experience to offer an opinion on preventative. But the dose is above in this thread. (09/20/14 05:58 PM)

Best of luck on the day trips!

valsey · #35 09/23/14, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

I could do a fecal, but the ivermec should resolve any BPW issue.

Really? Ivermectin will kill Barber Pole worm?? I thought that only cydectin and Morantel Tartrate could get it

motdaugrnds · #36 09/23/14, 10:24 AM

Ok, I've read this thread (and other threads re this meningeal worm) with great interest; and I'm confused as to treatment. This is my understanding and I would appreciate a critique.

All meds can be given either orally or injected. I prefer injections though I do know this many needles could be taxing on the goat's muscles; so will give orally if that is best....Can both these meds be given orally one day, then injected the next? ..... need clarification on this.

Ivermectin 1% given at 10 x regular dosage, which would make it 30cc per 100 lbs. (injected under skin not in muscle)

Safeguard "liquid" given at 10 x regular dosage, which would make it 23cc per 100 lbs.
(injected under skin not in muscle)

The Ivermectin is to be given daily for 3 days; and the Safeguard is to be given daily for 5-7 days with both of these being given consecutively and not one after the other.

I have had one doe die from this terrible worm and I suspect another doe and maybe my buck may be showing symtoms; so I'm going to treat them both as though they had this worm.

My doe is 150 lbs
My buck is 200 lbs

Thus, I would give my doe:
Ivermectin 1% "injected SQ" at 45cc daily for 3 days
Safeguard "liquid" (also injected SQ) at 35cc daily for 5-7 days

Is this correct?
During all these days, I will be giving a big glob of probios paste (orally of course) and Vitamin B Complex (high potency) 5cc in muscle daily.

I know this is a lot of shots. I'm just not sure about giving these medications orally, though will if others think this would be best.

valsey · #37 09/23/14, 11:54 AM

Please re-read the posts - if my math is correct 45cc of ivermectin is way out of line and you do not inject safeguard.

In a nutshell:
There are two protocols I listed. One is what the UGA vet suggested and one is from this site - http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...ngealworm.html - I have never used the second method.

My understanding is that Safeguard/Panacur/Fenbendazole paste or liquid is given orally. DO NOT INJECT. And Ivermectin Injectable is given SQ or IM. I prefer SQ. I have read that you must use the Ivermectin PLUS (includes something for liver flukes, but I do not see that in the UGA vet notes, or on the Tennessee Meat goat site)

According to The Tennessee Meat goat site, you do not treat with Ivermectin at all…only the Safeguard/Panacur/Fenbendazole. The dose is 23cc/100 lbs, (10 times the label dosage), so for a 200 lb buck would be 46cc Safeguard liquid, once a day for 5 days. (150 lb goat = 34.5 cc) Using paste gets a little tricky - do you have paste or liquid? I can give you my figures on paste if you need that. Dex and Banamine are also suggested. This treatment assumes the goat is displaying symptoms. MY assumption is that they mean physical symptoms such as paralysis, curved spine, weak back end etc. NOT scratching….but that is my assumption only.

According to the UGA vet treatment is 20-50mg/kg of Safeguard/Panacur/Fenbendazole orally for 7 days minimum. (I usually go only 5). A 200 lb goat is 90 km. 20 mg/kg dose would equal 1,800 mg of fenbendazole. 50 mg/kg dose would equal 4,500 mg of fenbendazole.

Also treat with Ivermection injectable at the same time for 3 days. Typical dose for prevention/treatment in goats is 1 ml per 55 pounds (2X cattle/sheep dose.) A 200 lb goat would get 3.6 ml. (I do Ivermectin first three days and follow up with Safeguard/Panacur/Fenbendazole). Vet would do entire regimen (both wormers) for entire time recommended, at the same time, and do not base decision on the fact that goat is scratching only…in other words, do not assume it has not reached the spine….I do not follow this…it's your call) Dex is also suggested.

Does that help?. Anyone else have suggestions?

valsey · #38 09/23/14, 02:56 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong -

Safeguard 10% liquid
100mg/ml
Dosage is 1,800 - 4,600 mg for 200 lb goat (20-50 mg/kg)
1,800 divided by 100 = 18 ml dose
4,600 divided by 100 = 46 ml dose

-------------------------------------------------
Safeguard equine paste 10%
25 gm tube 100 mg/g = one tube contains 2,500 gm of active ingredient and treats 1,100 lb horse.
Each notch offers approximately 227 mg of active ingredient.
10 notches on tube. One notch is for 110 lbs horse

For an 1,816 mg dose, give dose for 800 lb horse. (800 lb horse = 8 notches, 8 x 227=1816mg)
For an 4,313 mg dose, give dose for 800 lb horse + dose for 1,100 lb horse (1,900 lb horse = 19 notches, 19 x 227 = 4,313mg)

Pony · #39 09/23/14, 04:16 PM

I somehow missed the "ivermectin at the same time" part.

We injected her the first day with ivermec+. We've hit her with the Panacur Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, and I'm bringing home one more tube that I purchased locally tonight. I ordered some from Valley Vet, and expect it to arrive tomorrow.

Per what I have read above, I'm going to go ahead and inject her with the Ivermec again tonight, and once more tomorrow.

I'll be prophylactically injecting or orally dosing the remainder of the herd with Ivermec tonight or tomorrow.

Am I on the right track?

valsey · #40 09/23/14, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Am I on the right track?

I think you are, Pony, but you're guess is as good as mine. And which protocol you use to treat is also your choice.

Are you giving Dex or Banamine?