Pulling kids
 

We've experimented with several ways of raising kids and found that letting the doe keep the babies for a few days doesn't work so well. They remember each other for weeks if not months. We've also tried the penning up at night thing, but they're not as tame as they would be had we just bottle fed. So I'm wondering, for those of you that pull at birth, how soon do you pull? Do you pull them while they're still wet? Do you let the doe clean them? How soon do you take them away?

i pull mine as soon as the are out. i take them directlly in house and get them dry and clean. i think when i have let the doe clean them and then take them away it is harder on her becuase she knows that they were born alive and i took them away.

I pull immediately. They are still wet. If the kid is born before I arrive, the doe will get the opportunity to start cleaning it, but if I'm present at the birth, the baby is rubbed down well with rough towels and the airways cleaned out. The doe is milked immediately, and the babies are fed her colostrum for 3 days, then bottle raised on milk from all the does combined. I've not had any problems raising them this way. They think I'm mom.

OK. Thank you!! I just wasn't sure as we've never pulled at birth unless the mom rejected them. I didn't want it hard on the doe, but wasn't sure if cleaning the baby stimulated aferbirth or anything like that. :-)
Just hoping this doe doesn't kid in the middle of the night!!

we have had really good luck feeding the does grain in the morings. the last 2 years most of my kids were born between 7am and 10am. only had 2 does out of 20 last year kid during the night.

Think that makes them kid in the morning? I'll have to try that. :-) Thanks for the tip. We'll see if that works. Kidding in the morning would be better.

i was told about it from a long time breeder and it has worked for me the last 2 years. i ussually feed around 7am every morning. i am hopefull it will work agian this year.

We pull as soon as they are born. I clear their nasal passages, give them a brief rub and hand them off to my mother who dips navals and gets them drier. Then they go into the house to be handed over to another family member who takes it inside while we take care of any more babies born and the milking of the doe and such.

<shrug> I leave the kids on the does for a few days, then I lock them up at night. We all seem to get along sharing the milk, but then, I only have had one doe kid at a time.

We pull our ND kids immediately at birth and bring them into the house where it's warm for drying off and feeding first colostrum (which is milked from the doe immediately). If we're having a cold spring we'll keep them inside for a few days to admire and keep an eye on, then transfer to a warm stall in the barn. Does are fussed over by us two legged goat servants, given treats and allowed to lick our hands instead of the licking the kids. They bond to us, which helps immensely - especially for the first fresheners.

I told my husband about this thread and he say we are NOT pulling our babies we are gonna let the mommas be mommas. What are the advantages and disadvantages of pulling and why do you do it?

Hmm, I'm going to get in trouble here because I'm a newbie and I don't pull my kids unless there is a problem. My kids are a little wild but we do handle them a lot. We have found that they go through a fear stage at around 6-8 weeks where they just seem to be afraid of everything and unfortunetly that is about the time we sell them too but we do keep in contact with our buyers and so far our kids have settled down very nicely and are also well behaved with our customers. They don't jump all over them or their children when it's feeding time and yet it is still pretty easy to catch them up for hoof trims, deworming, etc. Also they bond pretty well with the new flock, they know they are goats not people. I have found that with our goats, Nigerians, Nigoras and one Oberhasli and a couple of mixed breeds, food is their greatest motivator. I tell my customers to buy some animal crackers and keep them in their pockets and if the goat (any goat not just mine)is acting flighty, just drop animal crackers as you go around, pretty soon they will follow you, then make them take them from your hand. We had one really wild wether and my customers took him a week before the other kids they bought so he was alone with them for 7 days without any other goats. Within three days he was begging for treats and attention, by the time they took the rest of the kids, he was extremely friendly with them and still is a year later. I have bottle babies here both lambs and kids and for me anyway, they are a pain in the butt, they jump all over me, try to knock over the grain bucket, etc. My customers tell me that my kids are really nice, friendly but they won't just walk away with just anyone, they know their family and they know their herd. But everyone is different and maybe different breeds or lines are better off being pulled when born. No one wants a really hard to work with goat-When they kick and scream for the littlest thing, it is a super pain in the butt and we've gotten in some adults that were like that, it usually takes us about 6 months to work that out of them and tame them down.

We pull them and bottle feed because for us its easier. The kids are tamer and the mommas don't fight us on the stand because we are taking their babies milk. The lick our hands during the birthing process, we are the only ones that relieve the pressure on their udders and they bond to us and we become their kids. We don't have the space to seperate for long periods of time for weaning, there is no hollering at weaning or when babies are sold and we can sell babies much sooner which allows more milk for us and less time put into babies that we don't plan on keeping.

For a lot of people dam raising is the way to go for them. Just isn't something we are interesed in.

For me, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
Unless it's a first freshener, who has no idea what that little alien is who just popped out of her... mostly the does who have gotten to raise their kids before KNOW what just happened, and their hormones are raging wildly and they will cry non stop for DAYS if you take their kids. I will never do that again to a doe. Sure, she bonds to you, but it's a terribly sad thing to see her crying for you and her kids.
I have been known to pull the doe kid off and leave the buck kid on though. That seems to work just fine. If I am keeping the doe kid I may want her not to be dam raised in order to not have weaning issues later on. Then, at 3 months I can just sell the buckling.

I am not a newbie to goats & dam raise all our babies. Our babies are very tame & lovable & actually have had repeat buyers because of this & some buyers refer other people to us because our goats are so friendly.

We do spend alot of time with the babies & our big goats alike but we only have 8 goats when no babies here.

I just think it's beter for everyone if the kids are raised by momma like nature intended, I guess I sound like your husband now.

If your wanting the milk that is one reason folks pull kids at birth. The kids can get enough through a bottle & the humans get the rest, which if a good liker will be quite a bit.

oh yeah! I forgot to say something about wild kids. Our kids are tame and friendly too, even if dam raised. Ours does are all super friendly, and the kids just follow their lead. We do handle them as much as possible (because who can resist????) but less than if they were bottle babies!

I do believe in letting the dams raise their own kids. I will have 4 milkers this year, plus the 2 I am goat-sitting indefinitely... and when I need more milk I will just lock up the kids at night and milk in the morning. No problem.

I do a little of both. If the doe has bucks I usually leave them with her. If there is a doe kid that I want to keep and milk then I hand raise her. I have found that it is easier for me to work with hand raised kids when it comes to trimming hooves, vaccinations and milking.
I too think it is healthier to leave the kids on the doe.

The first baby goats we ever had we took from the mother and bottle raised. They were bucks, very friendly and our children and I cried when my husband butchered them in the fall! I said never again!

So the last 32 years when babies are born the mother does what she does naturally and licks them off. If teats are to big the kids may need a little help latching on the first time or so. We milk the goats out the first couple of days as they usually have more colostrum than the babies need or want.

In a few days when the milk clears up we get out to the barn early and milk the mothers. The rest of the time the kids milk their mothers. We used to separate the kids at night but most times don't anymore while they are little. The little kids can't drink all the milk produced.

When kids are a few months old and drink all the milk we start putting them in a pen at night.By that time the mothers are glad to have a break from their kids. We only milk once a day and separate the older kids about about 6:00pm at night and milk 6:00am the next morning.

We have found kids raised on their mothers grow bigger and especially meat goats are big enough to butcher by October if born late winter or early spring.

We handle all kids alot when they are little so they will be friendly but don't make pets of ones that are destined for butchering.

The first reason we want to pull and bottle feed is that bottle fed kids are A LOT friendlier than non-bottle fed kids. We've had some really wild mama raised goats around here.

Secondly, we want the milk.

Thirdly, and like I stated above, we've tried it other ways and it just doesn't seem to work as well as pulling. We've tried locking them away at night and besides the bellering all night, if we leave them within sight, well, we've found does that are excellent at getting in with their kids through what seemed impossible odds as well as kids that can nurse through fences. It was a pain. We've also tried leaving them for a few days and then pulling, but it's much harder to get them to take a bottle then as well as it's amazing how long a doe and kids will remember each other and so you have to keep them separated for life it seems and also, we've had ones we've had to lock away for ages as it seems they never outgrow nursing. It's more hassle than it's worth.

Lastly, for disease control. We've had some rotten luck a few years ago getting diseases brought in and that's just not a chance I'm willing to take again. Everything gets tested and all babies go on pasturized milk or milk replacer so we don't spread anything.

Interesting...i have read some of the responses to husband....i have 3 babies i brought home at 2 weeks old and bottle fed, they are very attached to me, but i have a momma and baby i picked up when the baby was 4 months old, and she was skiddish at first, but just today she was nudging on me for me to pet her and love her. So i cant see that ones on the momma being more wild, especially if they live here with me, even the kittens born in the barn are picked up and held everyday so they come right to me, I guess we see what happens, guess we will let momma raise and see what happens.

The does we have had always had their kids pulled from the first time they kidded onward. None of them cried for their kids. We did have one doe that we tried letting her raise them and just seperate at night when they were a couple of weeks old. It was the biggest pain. In the morning the babies were hungry and she would not settle as long as they were hollering. So we had to work to get them to take a bottle in the morning so we could get her to settle for milking. And even then she fought us quite a bit because we were not her babies. And even though momma was friendly and we loved on the babies they were still getting wild. So finally we pulled them altogether. Momma hollered, babies hollered and it was a mess getting them on the bottle full time but after a week or so, things settled down and we didn't have to fight momma anymore. But we had to keep her babies seperated permanently because even after several months if the babies got in with her, they would nurse off her and she would let them.

No, I find it much easier to pull at birth, sell unwanted babies early and concentrate on the babies we want to keep and later when its time for those babies to go in with the bigger does, we don't anyone trying to nurse off momma. My babies have always grown well and don't seem to suffer any ill affects and neither do the mommas.

We had the exact same experience. It was a real hassle and we just found it easier to pull, I just wasn't sure how soon to pull. I haven't noticed that dam raised kids get any bigger any faster than bottle raised kids either. We've had both and they were pretty much the same in size.

On the wild, we've had goats, mostly Boer, that we've brought in that were as wild as white tail deer. Good grief!! You'd try to catch them to do their hooves or worm and they run into fences and often go over, under, through or whatever it takes to get away and then catching them is a total nightmare. We brought in two Boer does that were wild that way and the one got out and was gone for 3 days. Yes, I would much rather have a pain in the neck goat that follows me everywhere I go than a pain in the neck goat that I can't catch. LOL

I've only had one kidding here so far so I dunno how much help this is...

Tootsie kidded with twin bucks and I left them on her. One buck is super sweet, comes up to you..easy to catch & handle. The other is the biggest pain in the butt! He's recieved the same treatment as the other buck but is so insanely wild! Every night it's a chore to round him up to put them in the barn at night...he won't just happily follow his mom...trying to catch him for his coccida meds is a nightmare and I dread it.... I know it sounds awful but if he was meatier, I'd have hubby process him for me! At this point, even if I wanted to give him away, I couldn't because he won't take a bottle and it's too early for him to be off milk. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but the hassle this ONE kid gives me EVERY STINKING DAY is driving me nuts, and I'm stuck with it... :( Tried taming him, being very sweet....my daughter has even tried to spend time with him just reading a book and not actually messing with him (this worked on Tootsie) and he acts like a panther is sitting next to him! No idea why his brother is the exact opposite, but he is though..

I wanted to start separating the kids at night so I can milk in the mornings but so far trying to catch and crate that brat every evening hasn't been working out and when I penned them up just so they would stay out of the way so I could clip Tootsie and trim her hooves he threw the biggest tantrum that really set Tootsie off...and I tried having the crate within nose each of momma and out of eyesight and neither helped...

So, for me, I will bottle raise and pull at birth. That way if I ever have another one like this one (we call him the evil twin) I have the option of giving him away ASAP & know he can be bottle fed and cared for properly....

Sabrina is due to kid with her Ober cross babies on February 17th... I will be watching her like a hawk so I can be sure to grab babies as soon as they're born.. I want to keep a doe, but if hubby says no, then I want the option to place babies as soon as possible. I know for a fact I can't keep a buck, so I plan to put out a few CL ads before she kids for bottle bucks for cheap as long as they take them before 8 days old...hopefully that works....or better yet, maybe she'll kid with twin does for me ;) I think after dealing with the evil twin, I NEED twin does lol

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

We do as well. We have tried letting the kids nurse for a couple days, but then had crying mama and babies for weeks afterward. Much easier to pull right away.

Evil twin = barbecue at weaning.

It looks like it works out great for some of yall. At a certain time in my life, I did wish for/need more milk, so I was more strict about ALWAYS locking kids up.
But now, I really have plenty of milk from my girls, even with the kids nursing.
Cant sell it, so it's just being used for drinking, cooking, cheese making, and soap making.
Thankfully, our kids are still very tame, even with being dam raised. I've culled so heavily that all but 1 of the does are heavy heavy milkers. So now I need to be MORE on the look out for milk fever! It snuck up on me yesterday. :(

LOL There have been a few times I considered sending him to freezer camp before weaning! Both boys are freezer camp bound, but I won't miss the evil twin when he goes. The other buck with the white is sweet as can be....he begs for attention and doesn't even fight when I give him meds..... Every day I ask him "Why couldn't you be a girl?"

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

:smiley-laughing013::smiley-laughing013:

Oh reading your two posts made my morning!!

Evil twin would be used for my experiment in making my own rennet...

Happy to oblige :) If you'd like I'd be more than happy to pack a certain buck kid up and ship him your way.....then you wouldn't have to read about it, you could have the joy of experiencing it first hand :D Just send me your address and I will be sending a buckling your way. This lil man not only has potential to throw some pretty kids when he's grown, he will also test your patience many times a day and constantly find new ways to totally tick you off ;)

Pony-great minds think alike :)

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

Band the sweet little buck & he can just be a pet/companion & freezer for the evil twin.

Tempted, but both are freezer camp bound. Can't afford to keep and feed just a companion.....plus I didn't disbud them and I won't keep a horned goat. I really want another full sized Alpine doe, so I need to save $ to get one...so no wether pets. Hoping to get the boys cut this week.....At least then evil twin would have a reason to dislike people instead of his unjustified dislike & brattiness :) I think hubby wants them wethered and he's planning on sending them to freezer camp around 6 months or so...... IF evil twin makes it that far.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventure.blogspot.com

Ohhh, I've had my fun with goats just like him. Maybe that's why it's so funny. And it's amazing just how fast those things can corner isn't it?