getting baby nubians...question
 

We're looking at getting a breeding pair of nubian kids this weekend. I haven't owned goats before, these are pure bred and registered bottle babies about 2.5 months old.

What supplies do you recommend I have on hand before I pick them up? I have the basics down on a list but some sites suggest more, some less etc.

Just a suggestion. You might want to wait about getting a buck until you have enough does to warrant the extra work. You won't normally want to leave a buck in with a doe all the time. A buckling can, and will, breed your doeling way too young if the are together. I would suggest getting two doelings or one doeling and a wether.

Ditto the above post. The buckling will be ready to breed in the next fifteen minutes or so, and the doeling shouldn't be bred until she's 90 pounds (seven months or so.)

You'll need cocci prevention, wormer, bottles (find out what kind of nipples they are started on and get those!), shelter from wind and precipitation, hay feeder to keep hay off the ground, something to feed grain in if you start them on that, something for water that they can't drown in. I also recommend you dig up some clean dirt and offer that. Real young kids crave dirt and you don't want them eating it where they are pooing. Minerals.

Don't feed milk replacer, feed real milk. WHOLE milk from the store is ok.

Many people vaccinate, I don't so I can't help much there.

Cocci meds and dosages:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,2077.0.html
Wormers and dosages:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,9125.0.html
From birth till kidding, raising kids.
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,8934.0.html

Oh, didn't catch they were 2.5 months old. Probably don't need that dirt :) Um, are they taking a bottle? I hope they aren't taking them off mom at that age and giving them to you! If so they won't take a bottle and they are too young to wean! 5 months is best.

If on a bottle, you need to worm and start a round of cocci prevention the day they come home. The stress of moving will drop their immune system and all the nasties that are in their bodies will come out of the works. Cocci ruins kids, stunts them.

The treatment when you bring them home and when you wean are the most important ones.

I agree with the other two as it is not healthy for a doe to be bred at a young age. Her body needs to be more mature. I prefer to wait until she is at least a year old.

I do understand getting "one" goat is not good as they are social animals; however, keeping them separated for a lengthy period of time is going to be a good deal of work.

As for what you need: An adequate shelter, water bucket that can be hung on a wall (not set on the ground), a feeder they cannot get into and is high enough they cannot pot or pee in it, a 2-part holder you can place on the wall for loose minerals and Baking Soda. I would also add some Probias Paste and a good wormer.

As for food, it would be wise to get some of what they have been eating to bring home with you. All new foods need to be introduced to goats slowly.

See, this is where the potato chip issue comes in. It's best not to keep a buckling and doeling together because the doeling will get bred WAY too young. But they won't be happy seperated either.

So (here comes the potato chip thing), you should get the buckling and a wether and put up a seperate pen. Then get another doeling to go with the first. Problem solved.

I agree with those who say not to keep your buckling and doeling together. I always seperate Nubian bucklings from the does at three months old. They do need companions. Two does, a buck and a wether would be ideal. Another idea would be to see if you can get stud service from the breeder or someone near by and opt to buy two doelings. If these kids were dam raised and won't adapt to a bottle, I'd feed a goat developer pellet with a bit of calf manna thrown in along with alfalfa hay. They need to be introduced to grain slowly if they haven't ben eating it. Moving goats stresses them, so I'd worm them and give a course of cocci prevention when you bring them home.

Instead of a whether, I would get another buck that you can use on the first bucks kids. If you're going to feed another goat, might as well be a useful one. Pretty good bucks can be had fairly cheap. Your bucks won't be all that bucky until their yearling rut. This first rut will not be that stinky nor will be as stupid about does.

BTW, don't ever push on bucklings heads or encourage them to be rowdy. Don't let them jump on you but don't get excited in your correction. Mine are just met with my knee bumping them off. You want your bucks to be gentle and easy to handle when they are huge stinky boys. :)

well, we're also getting sheep so we had already planned to have the buck room with the lambs so that's a moot point. We have separate pastures and stalls and understand about the feed differences in each.

I was basically just asking what supplies I should have on hand for emergencies and such since some websites go all out with everything from medical exam gloves and others don't mention specifics at all.

Make sure they are vaccinated for CD&T, if not get that and give them 2 cc's plus a booster 21-28 days later.
Feed difference is one thing but goats need lots of copper which kills sheep, so I am not sure how you will get it to the buck if he is housed with the sheep.
Baking soda ( for upset stomachs)
Minerals ( loose)
PenG
Biomycin
needles
syringes
Tums
Hoof trimmers
Pepto Bismol
Bloat release

Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head that are in my goat kit.

Where will the doeling be housed? With female sheep?
I really would not get a buck for one doe. They smell and are royals pains in the butts. Mine are housed in cattle panels since they are horrible escape artists. If this is your first time with goats he may put you off on goats if he is in a rut and there is only one female he cannot "service". Also do not allow anyone to pet of scratch the top of his head, this is also for wethers. They will start to push you thinking you are playing and pushing can turn into butting.

You WILL need to copper bolus the goats, if they're to live with sheep. Goats require MUCH higher levels of copper - and feed or minerals with copper levels high enough for goats will kill sheep. If you give your sheep a high quality, loose mineral already, the goats will do well on it except for copper issues. You will want to copper bolus them every 4 months.

Buck with lambs, awww I've always wanted a geep or is it a shoat, no that is a pig. Take pictures though.

Take a step back and really look at your situation. "two bottle babies 2 1/2 months old" are these brother and sister? If they are their babies could bring out every deformity in the line. You won't get more than meat prices for the kids and their papers will mean nothing to anyone who knows about inbred goats, they simply won't buy them and you could never keep a doeling back to be bred to your buck.
If they're not good, that's a bad bad mistake to start out with.
Housing...sheep and goats can sometimes do Ok with each other, some better than others. Copper is one issue, breeding is another,geeps normally abort at about 3 months pregnant leaving you with no babies and no milk. How old are these lambs going to be? How are they going to compete with the more agressive goat? He will keep even the hay for himself. How are you going to keep the goat from eating all the wool off the sheep and getting a giant hairball? Who is the doeling going to live with? The chickens? That's a whole other kettle of worms that usually doesn't turn out well.
Disease issues...sheep are a major source of CL. Are you buying from tested or vaccinated herds? Are the goats CAE/CL free from tested parents?
Do you have a definate goal in mind for these animals? Or are they going to become "pets"? These type of pets become very expensive.
Do you have the time and money to put into these animals? You're not getting enough to give you any kind of a return on their care. You're not even getting enough to provide you with milk for 5 children much less cheese or soap and one eats for almost nothing. (Not to diss Nubians in any way)
Who are they going to live with after the lambs are butchered or they destoy your entire wool crop?

I'm truely not trying to be mean and I'm sorry if I sound that way. Trying to start is hard and you really have to think before you say "I want". I made almost every mistake up there when I started. It was costly and heartbreaking. Nothing will work until you can set goals and figure out what you want out of your homestead. Start with one type of animal and your garden, when they are paying their way; then get one more and your bigger garden, wait to acheive your goal, then; get the third and start growing part of what your animals need in your garden. Your garden will take most of your time and most of your energy if you're trying to be selfsustaining.

A lot of us here have been where you are right now and went through the heartbreak of learning after we get the sweet animals. Many are sick of being treated like they don't know what they're talking about so, they no longer try. The learning curve on goats is very steep. They don't stay in fences well, they need supplements to live well, they get sick for no reason, they are truely the most difficult of livestock. Sometimes you never figure out what went wrong. If you would write what you are thinking truthfully then we really could help you figure it out.

I just wanted to add how important a camera is as you've got so much good info above already I didn't want to over whelm you but We love Pictures!! Please!

Also did I mis something in the original post, I read a pair of baby nubians, how does everyone know that one is going to be a little buckling? I was thinking maybe a pair of doelings?

She said she is getting a "breeding pair", so we assumed one was a buckling.

We also 'assume' that the breeder would not sell siblings as a breeding pair.

UUmom, Beware. There are awful breeders out there. I see that you are asking about recommended supplies, but we tend to pull from our experience and wish to help you to avoid issues that we know ALL TOO well.

ManchaMom has great advice along with the other posters. Best to you.

Thanks Treasureacres, dummy me missed the "breeding" word all together when I read the post I guess.


Ok now I agree with everyone else I wouldn't start out with a buck & a doe either becuase I don't like to keep my bucks with my does & they can't be alone, both sexes need companionship & bucks are much harder to keep than does' so if just starting out I'd choose 2 does' or a doe & a wether(banded male).

Oh seriously, bucks aren't that hard to keep if you raise them right. And you're likely to end up with an unbred doe without a buck if you are new. It's hard to get them to an outside buck in a standing heat. It can be hard to tell when they are in a good heat with no bucks around and sometimes they get nervous and decide they aren't in heat when you drag them somewhere.

Unless there is a breeder that can board your doe for you for breeding.

Where in FL are you located? There is a local goat group in the NW FL area that will help you out with all kinds of local information. Its called Emerald Coast Goat Club. I can get you more info if you're in the area.

Well, I thought I wanted to get a few goats until I read this thread. Does anyone have experience with keeping a cow for milk, would you say it's easier or harder than goats? Please all you goat lovers, be honest!:D

Don't be scared off from goats! Our goats are great, and such useful animals! Just as there are issues with goats, and bad breeders, there is the same problem with cows. Something to remeber with cows is that you're going to need a lot more room, and a lot more feed. Plus, cows give a lot of milk, so if you're not prepared for it in making cheeses/butter/etc you're going to be wasting a lot of money spent in feed and time in wasted milk.

I have dairy goats and a dairy cow. I prefer the goats. But you can't make butter readily like with cow's milk. Goats have better personalities, are safer to handle, and don't take big nasty poops in your barn. They are generally easier to milk. Also, having 2+ goats in milk will keep a more consistent supply as you can have some in milk while others are dry. Cows eat a lot. But, with a cow you get all your milk from one animal, and don't have to handle several, they don't have to be kept safe from coyotes and dogs so much or have such good shelter and their male babies taste better IMO.

A Ccoooooww!!??
Now why would one want (A) cow when you can have many goaties? You can milk through a doe. (meaning that she will not dry up like a cow) Or you can have one preggo while the another one is producing milk. Year round milk either way.

But the real question is why get an animal with the output orifice larger than the input one?

Seriously, goats aren't for everyone, but I AM glad I have them. Best to you in your decision. Paul

for the simple reason that output oriface is a gold mine! THey go out collect the grass and turn it into a lot of compost material for your garden. Goaties don't bring in near as much as 1 cow does. Doesn't take long to have a garden spot with 2' of black gold.

You ought to take a look at the pile my goats have given me! Puhlenty of poo!

'easier' and 'harder' are relative terms.

I'm a 20 year old female, and I weigh 120lbs. I have goats bigger than me already, but I can manhandle all of them if needed. I'm more likely to get hurt handling cattle. Since I do all my chores completely alone and often far from the house or behind the barn out of yelling distance if I got hurt, I prefer goats. I'm not as likely to get as hurt with them.

The MAIN reason why we don't have cows, however, is the 'plops'. I do NOT ever want 'plops' in my barn. We do plan on getting cows eventually, but the current plan is to either use our uncut grove of spruces (a christmas tree venture left undended for 30 years) as shelter for most of the year, and maybe a hoop house which we would move 2x per year so we wouldn't have to clean up after them. I prefer dry, perfect, easy to clean/sweep berries that do not stink, and are OH SO AMAZINGLY EASY TO CLEAN.

I do eventually want a dairy cow... for two reasons. 1 - cream separates for butter. 2 - for fresh unpasteurized milk to feed to my dairy goat kids that I pull from their dams. :)

So far I haven't heard of many farms that test for diseases like Johne's disease, however.

Goats do require specific care. Then again, so does every other animal on the farm. The trouble with goats is there is a lot of misinformation that somehow transmuted from the cattle industry/sheep industry to the goat industry, unfortunately. Such misinformation is medicine dosing, lower copper levels in feeds, and sometimes there is still someone who tries to tell me that buck/doe twins results in the female kid being a 'freemartin'. :rolleyes:

I guess the main thing to do is to research before getting goats - but this is a rule that should be followed before getting ANY animal.

well the plops need to be picked up. Thats easy with a wheel barrow and a pitch fork, and doesn't take too much work to do with one or two cows. Shrug. As far as smell, its non existant if you pile it directly into a compost pile and put your layers on. Keeping a hot pile going.

I have both goats and cow and the goats don't put out enough poo to even bother collecting.

I have 9 does and at any one second someone is pooping :rotfl:

But yea, you wouldn't want to go around with a dustpan picking it up- I leave that to fertilize the pasture. But the soiled bedding and all is what gives me mounds of awesome fertilizers, has the brown mixed right in. Take a wheelbarrow full of the aged stuff, dump it on the ground and plant some watermelons in there and tell me if they don't take over the place! :)

The cow poo out in the pasture is ok, it's what gets in my barn that irritates me. The chickens will follow the cow waiting for her to release a little gold mine. They descend on them and get all the undigested grain and spread the manure in a 3 ft radius. Next thing you know you can't tell there was ever any poo. So that's good. Gross but good.

Thanks everyone, this has all been really interesting. It will be a while before I can get any thing, in the mean time I'm trying to learn all I can.

If you live near anyone with goats and/or cows, a visit would be good.

If you're near me, bring your muck boots and come on over! :)

But seeing the animals you're considering "up close and personal" will certainly help you in your decision making process.

Manchamom makes excellent points - basically says everything I was going to say.