Disbudding????

Pony · #21 11/11/10, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

How about local anesthetic?

I understand your concern for their comfort, HF, but srsly, it's best just to do it and be done.

When I broke my toe (many lightyears ago) the doctor insisted on shooting my foot full of lidocaine. Lidocaine SQ HURTS like fire, so I told him, "No, just pull the toe back into place."

We went back and forth and back and forth. Finally, I acquiesced.

Passed out.

Stoooopid doctor.

Had to have stitches in my finger the other day.

Felt like having the same argument, but I just figured I may as well go ahead with the pain, b/c he wouldn't do it without the lido.

Hurt like a ... well, it hurt worse than the initial wound, and I STILL have bruises from the lidocaine.

It's over so fast, and the less you mess with them, the better.

colemangirly · #22 11/11/10, 07:54 PM

ozark jewel I will be on here from time to time, but it would be better if you called me to be honest. I can call you when the time gets closer and give you my number. Did you say you would be having kids in January?

My parents own the orchard by MorningLand Dairy so you guys are almost like neighbors. We have swaped apples for cheese and the boys have helped make cider.

What method do you use for casteration and could I watch that also? I plan on doing all mine myself, but want to watch someone before I attempt it. We are getting two Kinder does in March and one will be having kids in April and the other probably in August-September (not sure when I will get her bred yet). They are a dual purpose breed for milking and meat, but smaller, a cross of pygmy and nubian. great butterfat and a decent amout for smaller goat and still good (60%) meat processing. I can't wait to get the little darlings and the kids are excited too.

Thanks for everything;

**mygoat** · #23 11/11/10, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

That's not why they scream.

It's quite a good portion, though.

A few seconds of hollering and pain for a lifetime of freedom from getting hung up in fences and generally being placed in more reputable homes is a fair trade, IMO. As for someone saying they're over it in minutes - I claim SECONDS. I set them down and they seem fine in under a couple minutes.

My favorite was a buckling who I set down after disbudding, and he capered off to butt heads with his brother.

Heritagefarm · #24 11/11/10, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

It's over so fast, and the less you mess with them, the better.

I hardly call almost a minute "fast".

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

It's quite a good portion, though.

They don't scream until the iron's on their head.

Wags · #25 11/12/10, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

They don't scream until the iron's on their head.

Mine scream anytime they are tightly held/restrained. And I've seen them hop up after disbudding and go running off to play with siblings or find momma for a quick nurse as soon as they are released.

Alice In TX/MO · #26 11/12/10, 06:53 AM

I put mine in a disbudding box, and they start screaming when restrained. They are sure you are a saber toothed tiger about to eat them for breakfast.

KimM · #27 11/12/10, 07:27 AM

They scream out of fear from being restrained. The scream in pain from being disbudded. Different reasons entirely. Point is they still scream in pain while being disbudded, but yes, it only lasts seconds and they're over it just as fast.
I will still always use the Banamine for the after-affects. I've done it without a few times, the Banamine helps.

CarolynRenee · #28 11/12/10, 08:19 AM

We've disbudded eight kids, let one freezer goat go and kick myself for not doing it. Would get his horns caught in everything. Yeah, yeah, get smaller fence. But we disbud every kid now, regardless if she'll be milking or if he'll be in the freezer.

The Fiasco Farm & other websites (which I can't recall) were good sources of information so we decided to just go for it on our first kidding. Only got the slightest scur on one goat & it just knocks off before it's even the size of a pencil eraser.

We trim the hair on the head (they scream bloody murder), put them in the disbudding box (they scream bloody murder), then disbud (they scream bloody murder).

Even with the disbudding box we still both help. DH with the iron & I straddle the box & hold the kid's head still. Slow & steady is the name of the game here & just keep calm.

I wont argue that it doesn't hurt. But as others have mentioned, once the iron is off their head & they are out of the box, they run to mom, nurse & go back to playing in just minutes.

Oh, we have the Reinhart 30x and don't use the smaller tip & we've done both kid Nigerian Dwarfs & Saanens.

Pony · #29 11/12/10, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

I hardly call almost a minute "fast".

They don't scream until the iron's on their head.

Yeah, it's very disquieting when they scream. I hate it.

But it's better than having their horns get stuck in everything. The short term pain is worth the long-term safety it buys.

Carolyn Renee, we did the same thing with our current butcher buckling: Left the horns intact. Should have paid the $3 to have it done, b/c he's already using them at 6 weeks old.

hobbyfarmer · #30 11/12/10, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

They don't scream until the iron's on their head.

Yes they do. Mine start screaming as soon as they're in the box and don't stop until they're out of the box. The actual pain isn't very long lived for them because you're burning the nerve endings. As soon as you're done, if it's done properly, you can touch that area (I use an antibiotic salve) and they can't even feel you do it. That area is now dead.

On a side note, I bought the iron and carried it back and forth to my vet's office for the first couple seasons, paying the vet to do the actual disbudding. He gassed them first and they screamed soooo loudly under gas that I was terrified to do it without the anesthesia. But, his assistant put the mask on a kid once and forgot to turn the gas on. The vet took his sweet time getting in and my poor kid was nearly dead from suffocation by the time the vet noticed he was struggling. So, I started doing it myself. They actually screamed more under the gas than they do w/o. Go figure.

ozark_jewels · #31 11/12/10, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemangirly

ozark jewel I will be on here from time to time, but it would be better if you called me to be honest. I can call you when the time gets closer and give you my number. Did you say you would be having kids in January?

My parents own the orchard by MorningLand Dairy so you guys are almost like neighbors. We have swaped apples for cheese and the boys have helped make cider.

What method do you use for casteration and could I watch that also? I plan on doing all mine myself, but want to watch someone before I attempt it. We are getting two Kinder does in March and one will be having kids in April and the other probably in August-September (not sure when I will get her bred yet). They are a dual purpose breed for milking and meat, but smaller, a cross of pygmy and nubian. great butterfat and a decent amout for smaller goat and still good (60%) meat processing. I can't wait to get the little darlings and the kids are excited too.

Thanks for everything;

Hey Neighbor!! Thats great! I just noticed your name.

Oh,,,,your dads cider.

Yes, I should have kids late January, early February. Later than usual this year as I usually start kidding out early January.

I use the band method of castration, and I will gladly show you how to do that as well. It is easy, just following a few simple rules.

Ah, so you'll have kinders. Good little goats.

ozark_jewels · #32 11/12/10, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

The short term pain is worth the long-term safety it buys.

I always say its short-term pain, for long-term gain. A few minutes of pain........its well worth the gain to the animal if we are talking dairy herd.
I also disbudd my calves. Goats truly are drama queens......the calves never make a sound.

Heritagefarm · #33 11/14/10, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbyfarmer

Yes they do. Mine start screaming as soon as they're in the box and don't stop until they're out of the box.

I haven't had that experience. The only time that happened was a big Saanen buckling that had to be re-disbudded; he was almost too big to fit in the box. But aside from that, they only start screaming when the super hot iron gets shoved on their head and burns up their flesh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I also disbudd my calves. Goats truly are drama queens......the calves never make a sound.

How do you disbud your calves? I would much rather do that than dehorning; that's a pain in the behind.

Lizza · #34 11/14/10, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

I hardly call almost a minute "fast".:stars

Goodness, I hope no one is burning for 30 seconds a side, we burn for 5-6 and wait, and maybe do another 3-4, that's 6-10 seconds maybe (we don't go by time but by site/color, usually it is on the lower end of the time scale). With bucks, we take them to the vet and have him do them, we hardly ever keep bucks so this isn't a problem.

I can't imagine anyone likes to disbud, it's sucks, but I completely agree with Emily, it is a few minutes pain for a lifetime of protection for them and us.

My daughter helped do a calf this year, I'll have to ask her how it did, our calves we had our vet do a "cosmetic dehorning", that was interesting, we are thinking of just using the iron with our new calf (due any day!!!).

dragonchick · #35 11/14/10, 09:44 PM

My Nigerian Buck and Saanen Buck were both burned for 30 sec per side and then another 15 sec per side and we still got scurs. A buck tip was used but still the scur's came. Luckily the scurs are loose from the skull and will more than likely fall off while head butting. Its a bloody mess when it happens but its a lot easier on them than re burning whenthey are older and too big to fit into the box.

ozark_jewels · #36 11/14/10, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

How do you disbud your calves? I would much rather do that than dehorning; that's a pain in the behind.

I HATE DEHORNING. So yes, I disbudd all my calves. It can be a pain to hold them still, but its so much easier on them than the bloody dehorning.
Its basicly the same as disbudding kids. Burn a ring, flip the bud off, burn with the side of the iron, burn a ring again. Calves are easier to do the actual burning than kids, because they are much less likely to scur.
You use the same disbudding iron, but without the goat tip. Its easier for me to keep one at the dairy for the calves, and my own at my place for the kids, than to keep switching from goat tip to just calf tip. But I have a lot of calves to do.......

dosthouhavemilk · #37 11/15/10, 08:55 AM

Why do you take the goat tip off?
We don't. The vet's assistant who did our disbudding for years before I took over, did not either.
Have you tried it with the goat tip on?
Try it with the tip on. I was so sad when I saw those calves at the school farm done by a new vet who had used the big base on those little Jersey heads. Overkill, IMHO.
The nice thing with the calves is there is a bit more of a time frame in which you can disbud. Especially Jerseys. they are harder to contain though. We stick ours in the goat stand usually. lol

My kids start screaming the minute I grab their hind legs and catch them. lol
But that is normal since I do not handle and tame down 100+ kids each year. ;o)
They don't all scream but the ones that do, scream just because I am holding them.
I've been burnt by an iron multiple times now. It hurts for a tiny bit then it doesn't.
Doesn't mean they don't feel anything.
Having gone down and found a kid hanging dead in a hay feeder and watching as kids were flung through the air by a horned doe, I simply see no reason not to disbud all of my kids that are born with horns. Thank goodness for Polled genes! Means fewer to disbud!
we are left with one horned doe and I have threatened her recently to remove them if she keeps up her behavior. For the most part, she is fine with them.
I do have a unicorn I need to take her single horn off of.
I end up battered and thoroughly bruised after each session, so they are getting back at me and I end up in pain, too. I don't use a box. I just don't see how I can have control and move with the kid with a box.
It was hilarious watching that kid pull its head back when Kim was trying to burn it though!
We all find our different ways of disbudding. Kim learned some by watching me. She does things differently than I do. the other person she watched does it differently as well.
As long as the buds are safely removed, that is the goal, right?
I don't clip the hair. I just get it done. Then again, I am doing as many as 20 at a time and I just need to get through it. it is not a pleasant task and the more I draw out the screaming (and they do scream when being clipped as well), the harder it is on everyone.
I usually do it all by myself, unless Kim is over to help or I am showing someone else how to.

ozark_jewels · #38 11/15/10, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dosthouhavemilk

Why do you take the goat tip off?
We don't. The vet's assistant who did our disbudding for years before I took over, did not either.
Have you tried it with the goat tip on?

I do not take the goat tip off if I'm disbudding calves before they are a month old.
But most of mine are over a month old by the time I disbudd and the calf tip does a better job. Also, most of mine have a lot of Holstien blood. Much bigger heads than your average Jersey. The rings the calf tip leaves on their heads is size equivilent to the rings the kid tip leaves on a kids head.

Heritagefarm · #39 11/15/10, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I HATE DEHORNING. So yes, I disbudd all my calves. It can be a pain to hold them still, but its so much easier on them than the bloody dehorning.
Its basicly the same as disbudding kids. Burn a ring, flip the bud off, burn with the side of the iron, burn a ring again. Calves are easier to do the actual burning than kids, because they are much less likely to scur.
You use the same disbudding iron, but without the goat tip. Its easier for me to keep one at the dairy for the calves, and my own at my place for the kids, than to keep switching from goat tip to just calf tip. But I have a lot of calves to do.......

I see. So, how do you hold the calves? At what age are they too big to disbud?

dosthouhavemilk · #40 11/15/10, 09:40 AM

Ah. Makes sense. I was surprised because I thought in the past you had said you use the goat tip.
I used the goat tip on some 3-4 month old beef cross heifers. I ended up with a couple of scurs unfortunately. Didn't even bother this year when I realized it was too late to burn. We had them scooped. Eww!
I got the tongue lashing from the assistant I expected. I had burned close to 100 kids, but that didn't make up for letting the calves go too long. lol
We can't even get our goat tip loose at this point.
The little Jerseys this vet had used the base on were a week or two old at most. The rings covered almost the entire tops of their heads.