Is Eradication Even Possible?

Oat Bucket Farm · #21 10/23/10, 11:14 AM

Thats what I would do. Have the vet give it so its on record with them.

Alice In TX/MO · #22 10/23/10, 11:30 AM

To answer Shara's question:

CL is an infection of goats, caused by Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis. It is also referred to as "abscesses", because of the peripheral swelling, rupture, and drainage of pus from affected lymph nodes. The prevalence of CL in the commercial goat herds may be as high as 30%. If abscesses affect more than one lymph node, the carcass will be condemned at slaughter. Decreased body weight and milk production also occurs, and reproductive efficiency is often lower when these animals have developed internal abscesses.

It is also contagious to humans.

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/cl/cl.shtml

Haven · #23 10/23/10, 12:03 PM

I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for a vaccine to truely work. Bacterial vaccines have a long track record of being unreliable.

CaliannG · #24 10/23/10, 07:32 PM

She is quarantined and I promise, I am not going to butcher her out-of-hand until I get a positive test back from the *culture*. (If the culture comes back positive, she has to go, though.)

Which will be next week. *sighs* I am simply trying to get my head wrapped around having to deal with an infection in my herd. I have never HAD to deal with an infection in my herd, because I have always bought from reputable breeders who tested and were careful of *their* herds, and I have always tested and was careful of MY herd. So this is rather a shock to me.

No lumps have appeared on any other goat. Now, I am kinda doing head spins, though. I *have* been careful, and it has showed up anyway. How do I keep my herd safe? CAN I keep my herd safe? Should I simply not stress about it as much? Is it like sex, as in "There is no such thing as safe sex, there is only safer sex"? Is there no such thing as a safe herd?

chewie · #25 10/23/10, 07:47 PM

that is pretty much what a vet from pipestone told me. had an old girl that i am certain that had it. i was saying how i'll miss her, and he was confused 'why would you get rid of her, isn't she working out?' went on to say how its impossible to think there are herd that are completely clean all the time--its inevitable that you'll come up against it sometime or other. said those herd who claimed not to have it just keep the 'bad' ones in a pen far away. *shrug* i just dont' know, but i didn't keep that goat either.

susanne · #26 10/23/10, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSALguy

it sounds like you and just about anyone else is in bad delima, honestly its irrational to butcher every animal every 6months, i have heard its the CAE that is more trouble anyway, if the biopsy comes back that she has CL i would keep her in quarantine while the site heals and watch all the others and when they develope the absess i would quarantine and drain accordingly,
there is no vaccine that i kno of, so if you want to keep goats then thats about all you can do,

don't know where you heard that nonsense?
cae is not a zoonotic like cl (means all warm blooded animals including humans can get infected with Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis)
since cae is transmitted mainly through white blood cells (colostrum milk or blood) it is very easy to eradicate trough pasteurization (colostrum and milk) and birth control. from your herd. it is not transmitted through flies or mosquito.
cl is much harder to eliminate because you can not always see the abccessn as the can be internally too.

i would recommend doing some research. call wsu or uc davis and ask questions. don't believe everything you read or hear but use some common sense.

for the OP, if you are in an area where it is so difficult to prevent or eradicate from your herd, look into a good vaccination program.
just from looking, no one, not even your vet can say for sure what patogen caused this absess.

southerngurl · #27 10/23/10, 10:13 PM

Flies generally don't travel farther than about half a mile. They would have to actually land on a open abscess and then come and land on your animal which would have to then get it into their body, so the fly transmission idea is pretty unlikely.

I do believe CL could be rid of with natural means as they are stronger and more broad spectrum. High doses of garlic over a period of time would probably do the trick, but how would you prove it? I guess you could stress the animal and see if there was a recurrence.

Alice In TX/MO · #28 10/24/10, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southerngurl

I do believe CL could be rid of with natural means as they are stronger and more broad spectrum.

I don't know what this means.

CaliannG · #29 10/24/10, 10:32 AM

She is talking about high doses of natural antibiotics, such as garlic ...or calendula, etc., etc.

Alice In TX/MO · #30 10/24/10, 10:57 AM

OK, I see that now. How would this affect encapsulated CL cysts?

Oat Bucket Farm · #31 10/24/10, 11:20 AM

Maybe you can remove the abbcess and sprinkle it will garlic and serve it alongside the Cud Sushi?

Minelson · #32 10/24/10, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

Maybe you can remove the abbcess and sprinkle it will garlic and serve it alongside the Cud Sushi?

Don't start that again!!!

Oat Bucket Farm · #33 10/24/10, 11:25 AM

:smiley-laughing013:

CaliannG · #34 10/24/10, 11:40 AM

I think I am going to go be sick now. :barf:

PotBellyPigs · #35 10/24/10, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

OK, I see that now. How would this affect encapsulated CL cysts?

Garlic is consumed, then used by the body to destroy bacteria, Alice.
I would add, that with the consumption of Golden Seal Root.
I had an infected tooth positively healed by Golden Seal and Garlic(2 double 00 Capsules and 4,000 mg Garlic) taken every 4 hours.....
Greg Zeigler
Alger, Ohio

susanne · #36 10/24/10, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

Maybe you can remove the abbcess and sprinkle it will garlic and serve it alongside the Cud Sushi?

not funny
grow up

Alice In TX/MO · #37 10/24/10, 05:25 PM

I thought it was funny.

CaliannG · #38 10/24/10, 06:01 PM

In another vein, I'd like some advice from those that have dealt with abscesses of all kinds. So please read and weigh in, if you would. *smiles*

The abscess that my vet *completely* drained from my girl is now refilling. In fact, it is already half the size it was the day before yesterday before the vet drained it. It is hard, although it is NOT leaking. (The incision that the vet made to drain it seems to have knitted up fast, and is not allowing fluid to come out.)

Now, from what I have read, and all the studies I have been filling my brain with concerning the subject, this is NOT something that would normally happen with CL. Secondary infections, according to the studies, are very rare with a CL abscess, because the very nature of it is that the bacteria is "walled off" from the goat's system. Not only that, but my vet was very careful to use all the bacteria-killing stuff when she drained it, AND the draining was done inside the clinic, in a sterile room, rather than in the barn or some other place that had dust and debris.

Likewise, the lymph nodes are not supposed to push this stuff out very fast, which is why it can take weeks or months for a CL abscess to fill to the point of bursting.

But....(again, this is information gathered from a lot of reading, not personal experience. This is only the second abscess I have ever dealt with in my herd, and the first was due to a sunflower hull piercing one of my goat's cheek.) ... it is NOT uncommon for a goat that has had a reaction from a C,D, & T shot to "refill" the lump at the shot site once it has been drained.

Anyone have similar experiences? Pretty please, share?

Oat Bucket Farm · #39 10/24/10, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

not funny
grow up

You are entitled to your opinion. The world would be a better place if more people could find the humor in life because without it, the world can become a very miserable place.

Now, back to regular scheduled programming.

Oat Bucket Farm · #40 10/24/10, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

In another vein, I'd like some advice from those that have dealt with abscesses of all kinds. So please read and weigh in, if you would. *smiles*

The abscess that my vet *completely* drained from my girl is now refilling. In fact, it is already half the size it was the day before yesterday before the vet drained it. It is hard, although it is NOT leaking. (The incision that the vet made to drain it seems to have knitted up fast, and is not allowing fluid to come out.)

Now, from what I have read, and all the studies I have been filling my brain with concerning the subject, this is NOT something that would normally happen with CL. Secondary infections, according to the studies, are very rare with a CL abscess, because the very nature of it is that the bacteria is "walled off" from the goat's system. Not only that, but my vet was very careful to use all the bacteria-killing stuff when she drained it, AND the draining was done inside the clinic, in a sterile room, rather than in the barn or some other place that had dust and debris.

Likewise, the lymph nodes are not supposed to push this stuff out very fast, which is why it can take weeks or months for a CL abscess to fill to the point of bursting.

But....(again, this is information gathered from a lot of reading, not personal experience. This is only the second abscess I have ever dealt with in my herd, and the first was due to a sunflower hull piercing one of my goat's cheek.) ... it is NOT uncommon for a goat that has had a reaction from a C,D, & T shot to "refill" the lump at the shot site once it has been drained.

Anyone have similar experiences? Pretty please, share?

I have never seen a CL abbcess, but I was under the understanding that they do not get hard. You very well could be dealing with something other than CL. It almost sounds like how our horse's leg when he fell on a stump and had a chunk of wood down in his leg. We lanced and drained his leg daily for says before it all finally came out. Is it possible she got something in there by rubbing on a tree or something?