best LG for Cougars

Cannon_Farms · #21 09/12/10, 04:10 PM

the horse isnt with the goats, we have more land just not for the goats for right now, course thats also the great thing about the little fellers they dont need much, which is also a perk about the donks

farmmom · #22 09/12/10, 04:18 PM

Add some bacon to that hotwire so the predator gets "bit" really good!!

Cannon_Farms · #23 09/12/10, 06:03 PM

yep and all my dogs will be yelping and probably my kids too, and as much as i love bacon I better not sleep walk. I get your point though, trying to be funny. We put PB on it to keep deer out of the garden
I dont know. I tried to upload some pictures of a mule with a mountain lion, the pics where supposed to be of a mule killing the lion but later was proven the lion was already dead, but the mule did a heck of a number after the rider shot it, one has the mule picking the cat up by the tail slinging it around, stomping it and so on.
I just need something thats going to make enough noise to let me know somethings out there. I know dogs are great but at this time I just dont think I could trust another one after ranger went on his killing spree that almost made me go under with my goats, matter of fact if I have an all buckling kidding season Im done and will have to sell all my does and call it quits as we just have too many medical bills. If they cant pay there feed bill I cant keep them right now. Donks and mules are cheap down here compaired to a lg thats even half worth his salt.

CaliannG · #24 09/12/10, 07:33 PM

Get an alarm dog.

You know those barky, yippy, annoying creatures that most of us say cannot be a REAL dog, because nothing that bounces when it barks could correctly be called a dog? Well, way back in the dark ages, they had a purpose, and that purpose was to loose their little minds when they sensed something scary and yip their fool heads off for something larger and/or armed to come out and take care of the scary thing.

They were often paired with guards or even trained dogs. In war camps, the yippy dog alerted the area to intruders of man or beast so that the mastiff would know to take care of the problem.

You want something you can afford that will raise a racket if something predatory goes after your livestock, thereby giving you the opportunity to shoot the offending predator? Something that will not be a danger in and of itself to your livestock? Well, get an alarm dog.

Cannon_Farms · #25 09/12/10, 07:44 PM

I had a kennel for years barking dogs do not do anything for me, I have a lab and a gsd that will bark at night if they hear anything but I sleep right through it. Very few times have the house dogs barked and actually woke us up because of the outside dogs and that was when some ones coon dogs came up last year and it was there pitch that startled us out of our sleep not our dogs. If a dog is going to bark outside its going to have to hold its on.
The donk we had before went crazy one night and got us up over foxes

Haven · #26 09/12/10, 08:04 PM

It seems that most large-game dogs are supposed to work in groups. I cannot recall ever seeing a breed that dispatched large predators solo.

How about one dog and a few cheap donkeys?

Cannon_Farms · #27 09/12/10, 08:09 PM

not enough room currently for that. Maybe the 80 acres of cows behind me and the out in the open sorta goats in-between the siting and myself will be enough to keep him full, not like we dont have an over abundance of deer around here as well.
If I was going to get a lion dog it would be something like a presa or Rhodesian ridge back but unfortunately those dont make good family and farm dogs for the most part.

CaliannG · #28 09/12/10, 08:20 PM

Tibetan Mastiff? There is a rescue for them and they have and will take on lions.

~grinz~ In the old days, they were paired up with Llasa Apsos. The Llasa would raise the alarm and then the T.M. would take care of the problem, whether that problem was a wandering tiger or a wandering company of soldiers.

jordan · #29 09/12/10, 09:55 PM

The largest LGD is the Spanish Mastiff and the only breed, who as a rule as opposed to an exception, will have an average weight between 150-225 lbs. They can and will take on a wolf and win and are more than willing to take on bear, so I can't imagine one would hestitate with a cougar...
With only 110 in the US at this time, they are cost prohibitive to your average farmer. There are currently 20 in working homes and hopefully, more will be added as more people come in contact with them and discover what an amazing breed they are!

After researching the TM for a few years, personally, I wouldn't recommend one to anyone, and considering the unstable temperament in so many found in the US, never a rescue! Unfortunately, when the breed started out here in the US, there were simply too few breeders that focused on temperament. It's a breed that is no longer represented at our annual Kennel Club informational event because every supposedly calm TM that was brought in was too aggressive.
I'm sure there are good one's out there, but not worth the risk IMHO.
Lois

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Tibetan Mastiff? There is a rescue for them and they have and will take on lions.

~grinz~ In the old days, they were paired up with Llasa Apsos. The Llasa would raise the alarm and then the T.M. would take care of the problem, whether that problem was a wandering tiger or a wandering company of soldiers.

LoneStrChic23 · #30 09/12/10, 10:48 PM

Rhodesian Ridgebacks can be great family dogs. They were my moms breed of choice until her last one passed away & broke her heart.The only thing I would say negative about them is they were not welcoming to guest and would get pushy if guest at my mom's house tried to interact with the grandkids...

Personally, I'm a Dane person through and through, and though I know so many people say "This breed is the best for ----" I believe the individual dog is what matters. My Dane I lost 3 years ago would help put up livestock, was trusted, alone for hours with my mom's bottle baby nigerian dwarfs, chickens, ducks ect. ect and did all the general "farm dog" stuff. I have a pic of him with his ears all in bandages after he attacked, and broke the neck of a bobcat that got too close to our property line. If I wouldn't have seen the attack/fight myself I would have never, ever believed it.

On the flip side, my father in law paid $1300 for a 1 1/2 year old trained Pyr. Born and raised with goats & sheep, from a long line of working parents. After 2 years, for no explained reason, the boer kids started turning up dead, with ears missing...a few wandered up alive, with their ears chewed off, though later died. After trying to solve this puzzle and loosing a huge kid crop, he came upon his pricey, and up until this point, wonderful guardian, chewing the ears off a live kid. He shot the dog, sold the surviving goats & washed his hands of it.

For me, I will not shell out the big $$ for a LGD. The next dog I get will be the Dane puppy I've been on a waiting list for over 5 years for. My last one I raised from a puppy was a beloved pet, kids best friend, and guardian of all that was mine be it stock or barn kittens.

Not to mention I don't want to feed 2 dogs, one that is strictly guardian and one that is "pet" I want a 2 in 1 package, lol Of course there is no guarantee that my next Dane will be like my last good one, but I'll do my best to ensure it is.

I am also on small acreage. So a donkey isn't feasible for me cost wise. We have an abundance of wild hogs, cougars, bobcats & coyotes here. Our plan, since we do not have a big dog at the moment (Brutus patrolled on a daily basis and was a great deterant to most critters and since he's been gone, the wildlife has been creeping in on us again) is to enclose the barn and put the goats up for the night & hotwire the exterior. For us, I can't think of any other option to ensure they're safe. To me, the cost to enclose & electrify will be less in the long run than feeding/caring for a donkey/llama and will sit better with me than buying a guardian dog & feeding it, when it's not really a breed I *really* want. Don't get me wrong, I have seen some amazing guardian dogs, the breeder of my goats has some great working pyrs who take their job very seriously. So serious in fact, that they had to be put up before the breeder could let me in to see the goats as they allow no one but her in that pen (her hubby even has a hard time of it). I have 2 small children, who from time to time will go in the goat pen alone, and I don't feel they could be 100% safe doing so if I had a LGD.

Oh, and my neighbor has a 7 year old, Anatolian (or possibly ant mix) He got him as a 5 month old puppy at the shelter for $60 & it included his neuter and vaccines. He has less than 10 sheep, a few mini horses and about 5 cows. This dog has been his reliable guardian dog for the past 5 years. He herds, watches, helps load stock in trailers....and as long as his owner says your okay, he's a big love bug... I would consider a guardian dog if I could have him (and if I was on bigger acreage)!

LOL and he has no pedigree, have no clue what stock he's from and was only $60.

It seems like such a gamble on getting a guardian, and then choosing what sort of guardian. You hear amazing stories, and you hear horror stories on just about every guardian out there....since I can't get the guts to jump in and try it, enclosing the barn is the best I can do right now..

Good luck finding something that works for you.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

Creamers · #31 09/13/10, 12:36 AM

Are you home a lot or do your work full time? You might just but them in a shed/barn while your not home or overnight. I would do that even with a LGD if cougars were around because I'm paranoid - lol - about stuff like that.

Cannon_Farms · #32 09/13/10, 06:33 AM

Lone chick, I am a former dane owner, and handler and know the breed inside and out, great dogs my last one though at my macaw parrot on my bed.
One of the last ones I handled I would love to have back on the farm, she was a great dog, but to be honest, after the stint with ranger I am burnt out on dogs, this is the first time in years we have had less than 10 dogs, I do not want a puppy and an adult dog is just too risky. Theres a nice looking Anatolian at the shelter here but my chickens and goats run together and im just to dang nervous about it.

We are enclosing the sides of the barn as much as I hate to, I love the free air in the summer and the ability to tarp it off in the winter but what must be done must be done.

I think Ill just put an ad out for a loud mouth donkey and a couple fainting goats that are wild (the goats) so I dont get attached, probably nothing I have to worry about ever dag gum goats keeping people paranoid

LoneStrChic23 · #33 09/13/10, 06:52 AM

OMG Cannon! He ate your parrot!? How awful! I've grown up with Danes and have only had one "bad" one, though he was bad through no fault of his own. Poorly bred, poorly cared for for 4 years, severe health issues, no training or even basic manners...We sadly had to have him PTS this week due to his failing health...To be honest, with him, he would have been the biggest threat to my goats as he'd kill anything smaller than him (the main reason I don't have chickens, but will next spring)....I'm obsessive with training, handling and socialization and I think that's the biggest reason I've never, ever had an issue with the dogs I've raised from puppies...

If I were you, I'd be worried about my chickens too if you were considering the Ant in the shelter. Chickens are just very tempting toys to most dogs in general...

What's the price range on Donkeys in your area? They are dirt cheap here and I see a "free to good home" donkey ad at least once a month. Right now there's a mom/baby package for sale for $50.

If anything it would make racket and would be a better option than nothing at all..

Here, someone is usually home most of the time. My mother just moved in and she's almost always here and outside doing something...My husband is working out of town right now and after next week my leave of absence from work starts...so I'm hoping with people watching during the day, and putting the goats up at night then maybe we'll be able to keep them safe from predators. I know the next few weeks some folks are being paid to come out and thin out the wild hogs on the property bordering mine (the only part that is thick woods and no humans ever on it), so maybe all that human activity back there will also help deter them..

Good luck! Hope you figure out something that will keep your goats safe from the predators..

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

Cannon_Farms · #34 09/13/10, 09:11 AM

Bad thing is, Gracie was my role model for how good a dane could be she had her CDX and was certified therapy but things with feathers where just too much for her...
Guess Ill put it to rest just kinda freaks you out a bit you know.

wendle · #35 09/13/10, 11:29 AM

If they are only in an acre, I wouldn't mess with a lgd either, he will likely get bored.
Hot wire should work, and possibly locking goats in a tight pen at night.
Have had two donkeys and two llamas here, though a slight deterrent, none prevented losses.

Heritagefarm · #36 09/13/10, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

Those are both "prey" animals
You need a DOG to keep cats away

Get a TRUE LGD breed from WORKING parents, and spend a little time training it, and you shouldn't have problems with any predators

http://www.lgd.org/

A good LGD doesn't need training to scare predators away.

Cannon_Farms · #37 09/13/10, 08:32 PM

I have five acres and many acres of forclosed bare wooded lots next to me and my hind pasture welcomes a lg as long as they dont eat his calves (he doesnt know about the one time)

We found one of our cats dead today, hes been here for 3 years and dont know what killed him

Pops2 · #38 09/13/10, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

A good LGD doesn't need training to scare predators away.

i'm pretty sure he meant training in the sense of learning property boundries & not to play rough w/ the stock.

Pops2 · #39 09/13/10, 09:28 PM

i don't doubt that if a 200# LGD can actually catch a 50-90# red or mexican grey wolf it could kill it (like say in a pen). but i STRONGLY doubt any dog at 200# has either the raw speed, endurance or agility to actually catch a wolf even the big canadian greys. when Roosevelt was ranching in the badlands he wrote of a neighbor that lost 2 mastiffs to a single large plains wolf in one very short fight. at that time the nearly extinct mastiff was being rebuilt using the bullmastiff Thorneywoods Terror as a foundation stud. Terror (& many of his pups) was noted for his ability to take down and keep down 3 men armed w/ clubs WHILE MUZZLED. now if the dogs were pre Terror the loss is understandable. if they were post terror, that say a ton about wolves.
the wolfers i know right now mostly use stags, greys & lurchers over 60# to take coyotes in the 30-45# range and generally about 3 at a time. or they use packs of 3 or more foxhounds 50-75#.
i'm also intimately familiar w/ the effort it takes to get & keep a bull/mastiff type dog in the shape to run down boar & bear AND catch or fight it when it stops.
so i'm not saying it can't happen, but i am highly skeptical about ANY 200# LGD doing anything to either a wolf or a cougar except for getting on it's nerves.

Pops2 · #40 09/13/10, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms

I have five acres and many acres of forclosed bare wooded lots next to me and my hind pasture welcomes a lg as long as they dont eat his calves (he doesnt know about the one time)

We found one of our cats dead today, hes been here for 3 years and dont know what killed him

my greyhoundX is here w/ me so we can rule him out, although he has done in quite a few others. if it had been a cougar or bob it would have just disappeared. 50/50 chance of the same w/ a canine. fox, coon or raptor would most likely have sat down and eaten it on the spot.