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08/31/10, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 1,109
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You're right Cannon Farms, that is a possibility. I remember seeing that picture of the bled out goat. Thanks.
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08/31/10, 07:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms
Ok, get some red cell (or tsc store brand cell magic) 30ccs drench in them or 3ccs of injectable iron (burns, first choice is easier to me). I dont do the injection but every few days but the drench after that 30ccs first dose I dont do more than 6ccs for a large goat and no more than for four or five days as there is stuff in there that can become toxic if used in large doses for long period of time because the vitamins are not water soluble.
Second, copper bolus the goats, Barber Pole worms and Hook worms are greatly reduced by this method. I would use the drench today if possible and worm them tomorrow with cydectin (quest) or large doses of safeguard, as in half a tube for a large 150+ goat but thats ME and what I do, and DO for the people that employ me to come take care of this problem in there herds. Its also what works well in GA.
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I got the stuff and administered it this morning, as per your directions.
I figured I'd let you know.
Tomorrow deworming.
Thanks a bunch!
Ps- fecal results confirm what you said.
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08/31/10, 08:53 PM
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Katie
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Twining, Mi.
Posts: 19,930
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I won't add to the worming issue since you've gotten alot of good info on that already.
Alot of good info from all these folks. Goats have a very steep learning curve but once you get that figured out & what works best for you in your area it's much easier.
I did want to add that any feed changes should be done slowly or you can really mess up there stomachs.
I to use the Cargill Brand "Right Now Onyx" Mineral & have good results with it but like some others have said it may not be available in your area. My feed store orders it & keeps it on hand for me, TSC didn't carry it here & wouldn't order it.
When getting a loose mineral, you want a high PPM copper amount. Also if you can get the dark gray or black colored loose mineral it is alot better for your goats than the red colored minerals. It's the difference in the copper that is in each & how it is absorbed into your goats. Makes a big difference.
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08/31/10, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,486
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I can't offer any advice on your situation as you've already got loads of great info from this thread (I've learned a thing or 2 from this thread as well) but I thought I'd post this link for you:
www.cargillanimalnutrition.com
I used the website to find a dealer locally who carries the Right Now Onyx minerals.
Good luck!
Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com
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08/31/10, 10:57 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 1,109
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Here's the article with the worm bleed out. http://goat-link.com/content/view/58/46/
Ideally the goats should be copper bolused with copasure. That would help with worming as Cannon Farms said. Feed stores don't generally carry it and it would take up to a week to order it from Jeffers.
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09/01/10, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bellflower, MO
Posts: 3,695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms
oh, and as far as the feed, I have played with everything possible at tsc because its for one cheaper for me with my discount, and two im already there and the feed i buy is 17 miles in another town. Out of everything there, the above mix gave the best results on meat gain and milk, godfreys just is a bit better.
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I agree I don't work at TSC but they are really the nearest place to me for food and stuff for my goats. There is a guy that works at the one I go to who has goats but is not so knowledgeable about goats, that make sense? After getting one of Pony's nubian doeling's I have since added beat pulp to my mix of oat/feed, alfalfa pellets, and BOSS. I had to hug my saanen last night cause she just looking so GOOD! I wish I could convince the TSC here to order some of the other stuff I need.....the milk filters, cargil onyx, x30 dehorner, Copasure, bolus's, proper hoof trimmer's....
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09/01/10, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Monroe Ga
Posts: 4,637
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now I like the hoof shears we have, didnt at first but do now but one thing i have learned is that hoof shears are about as personal as underwear.
As far as the other stuff, like everything else TSC is behind the times and this measly manager has no idea what shes talking about when she says this stuff is important for goat production because the guy behind the desk, aka buyer doesnt think it is yet he probably doesnt know what an udder is. I dont like the direction the company is going in, before long it will be a mini walmart that sells feed with cutsie stuff and nothing you really need. anyway off my soap box there.
The feed combo I recommended is better than anything other than this godfreys on the market that i have tried, even using expensive horse feeds such as seminal. I have not read the onyx minerals but read the lable on the pasture mineral we sell and see if it compliments what you are lacking in your soil, if not in your store then its online and they can order it.
__________________
I'm a goat person, not a people person,
De @ Udderly Southern Dairy Goats
we will be adding a new breed in the spring 
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09/01/10, 10:38 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PotBellyPigs
Can this be detected by stool droppings?
Is it manageable or does the goat simply die?
Is it spreadable from one herd to another?
I got my herd to think about as well!
Any info. is greatly appreciated!
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It is incurable and fatal. It is also highly contagious as the bacteria is present in the stool. it may be present in the animal for months or years before becoming symptomatic.
There is a fecal culture that may diagnose, but it is unreliable.
The goat may appear to have a good appetite, even while literally wasting away. They basically aren't able to digest the food they consume. stool may be almost normal or sometimes pasty and watery. The basic diagnosis comes from the fact that wormers and antibiotics just don't do anything and the animal continues to waste away.
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09/01/10, 03:07 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.
I won't add to the worming issue since you've gotten alot of good info on that already.
Alot of good info from all these folks. Goats have a very steep learning curve but once you get that figured out & what works best for you in your area it's much easier.
I did want to add that any feed changes should be done slowly or you can really mess up there stomachs.
I to use the Cargill Brand "Right Now Onyx" Mineral & have good results with it but like some others have said it may not be available in your area. My feed store orders it & keeps it on hand for me, TSC didn't carry it here & wouldn't order it.
When getting a loose mineral, you want a high PPM copper amount. Also if you can get the dark gray or black colored loose mineral it is alot better for your goats than the red colored minerals. It's the difference in the copper that is in each & how it is absorbed into your goats. Makes a big difference.
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Oops!
I couldn't find "Right Now Onyx" neither, so I bought "Stockman's Choice".
It is red in color.....
I will have to see if Anderson's Farm Supply carries the right kind!
Thanks....
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09/01/10, 03:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23
I can't offer any advice on your situation as you've already got loads of great info from this thread (I've learned a thing or 2 from this thread as well) but I thought I'd post this link for you:
www.cargillanimalnutrition.com
I used the website to find a dealer locally who carries the Right Now Onyx minerals.
Good luck!
Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com |
Thanks a bunch!
His goats are starting to behave and act much better...
My goats never got it(thank goodness), but I went ahead and did the SAME for them....
He already had Copper Bolusing on hand... 
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09/01/10, 03:12 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenrbw
It is incurable and fatal. It is also highly contagious as the bacteria is present in the stool. it may be present in the animal for months or years before becoming symptomatic.
There is a fecal culture that may diagnose, but it is unreliable.
The goat may appear to have a good appetite, even while literally wasting away. They basically aren't able to digest the food they consume. stool may be almost normal or sometimes pasty and watery. The basic diagnosis comes from the fact that wormers and antibiotics just don't do anything and the animal continues to waste away.
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Well, I am sure glad that his goats didn't have that!
I think I'd really cry, if my 3 year old Saanen doe died of that!!!!
She really IS a gentle giant...
Thanks for the information.
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09/01/10, 03:18 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms
now I like the hoof shears we have, didnt at first but do now but one thing i have learned is that hoof shears are about as personal as underwear.
As far as the other stuff, like everything else TSC is behind the times and this measly manager has no idea what shes talking about when she says this stuff is important for goat production because the guy behind the desk, aka buyer doesnt think it is yet he probably doesnt know what an udder is. I dont like the direction the company is going in, before long it will be a mini walmart that sells feed with cutsie stuff and nothing you really need. anyway off my soap box there.
The feed combo I recommended is better than anything other than this godfreys on the market that i have tried, even using expensive horse feeds such as seminal. I have not read the onyx minerals but read the lable on the pasture mineral we sell and see if it compliments what you are lacking in your soil, if not in your store then its online and they can order it.
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I got my hoof trimmers from TSC and like them.
They are carbon steel, thus can be resharpened.
My Son-In-Law's goats are looking and acting much better now, thanks to you!
If I ever need advise, I know where to go.
Thanks again 
Ps- My goats never got afflicted, yet I treated them the same, just in case...
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09/02/10, 04:12 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PotBellyPigs
Well, I am sure glad that his goats didn't have that!
I think I'd really cry, if my 3 year old Saanen doe died of that!!!!
She really IS a gentle giant...
Thanks for the information.
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Potbellypigs,
Just to clarify:
These goats did not die from Johne's.
That does not mean they don't have it, just that that isn't what killed them.
HF
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09/02/10, 01:24 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFarmer
Potbellypigs,
Just to clarify:
These goats did not die from Johne's.
That does not mean they don't have it, just that that isn't what killed them.
HF
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I understand.
The fecal came back as Cannon predicted....
I think the boy didn't have a clue on how to take care of his goats, and I was close, yet still far off.
In fact, after reading all of these posts, I'm amazed that any of his goats survived all of this time(they have been in his family for at least 5 years now).
I just started with goats this spring, and in fact my 2 year old Saanen had twins in June 
I STILL have many things to learn, I am sure.
I hope you are wrong, since fecal results can be faulty for Johne's.....
Thanks for all the information, ladies and gentlemen 
Greg Zeigler,
Alger, Ohio
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09/02/10, 02:25 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 4,124
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Sounds like cocci to me. This is the reason for doing a stool sample first as opposed to expensive trial-and-error worming. Wormers do not touch cocci, and coccidiosis can kill.
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09/02/10, 06:00 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,012
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[QUOTE=PotBellyPigs;4619648]
The fecal came back as Cannon predicted....
Huh?
Not to be nitpicky here but see posts 4, 9, 36 & 55....
Cannon you do give good advice, and I enjoy reading it.
I'm glad your goats are doing better.
HF
Last edited by HappyFarmer; 09/02/10 at 06:43 PM.
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09/02/10, 06:06 PM
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Katie
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Twining, Mi.
Posts: 19,930
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So glad they are all doing better! Goats teach us an awfully lot & the learning curve is so steep but after we figure them out they are usually much easier! Just then they throw another something new at us! Hahaha!
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09/03/10, 01:06 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Idaho
Posts: 150
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ok I'm not sure what was the answer to what the goats died of. Worm overload?
Last edited by Shades of Gray; 09/03/10 at 02:01 AM.
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09/03/10, 08:36 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 292
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[QUOTE=HappyFarmer;4620104]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotBellyPigs
The fecal came back as Cannon predicted....
Huh?
Not to be nitpicky here but see posts 4, 9, 36 & 55....
Cannon you do give good advice, and I enjoy reading it.
I'm glad your goats are doing better.
HF
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Yeah, you did indeed bring up the worm issue as well.
I just think Cannon was more forceful about the matter, if you know what I mean!
Thanks EVERYONE for your input.
My Son-In-Laws two Alpines(a buck&doe)that remain living, are doing a whole lot better. I could tell, as they sit out in the hot sun, whereas before, they wouldn't even get out in the sun. When he hollers at them, they come running to the fence expecting a treat. They are acting much better.
My goats NEVER had this problem, and I am thankful for it(and them)!
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09/03/10, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 4,124
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What conditions are they living in? If the ground where they are is wet or lush with lots of wet foliage, or lots of manure all over the ground and feeding troughs, or if they are fed grain and hay on the ground, they are a lot more likely to get worms and cocci than if conditions are high, dry, and clean.
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