CAE questions

ozark_jewels · #21 05/03/10, 08:26 AM

The only reason I wouldn't buy a dam-raised kid/doe who was CAE negative is if its wild. I refuse to handle a wild kid.
Of course, I don't dam-raise my doelings either, just the butcher boys.

ozark_jewels · #22 05/03/10, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

emily that is very interesting and opposite to what is going around.
on the other hand this would confirm what a vet told in a seminar. mastitis is spread because a calf that was allowed to nurse on an infected cow, has then the bacteria in the mouth cavity and if sucking other, healthy cows (and they will do that) spreading the mastitis causing bacteria. calfs will also suck on other calfs and why then heifer freshen with same mastitis as adult cows have.

Yes, that does make sense. I'm not saying it cannot happen the other way either, but it certainly hasn't been my experience. All "hot milk" is fed to the calves(all of which are replacement heifers) with none showing mastitis when they freshen.....so??

Jay27 · #23 05/03/10, 09:19 AM

Slightly off topic, since my point is about dam-raised kids and has nothing to do with CAE. Sure dam-raised kids are wild at first, but I don't think it takes much to tame a dam-raised doe. Of my first goats, the doe kid wild as he11. Her mom was shown but the daughter had not been handled. I bred momma and daughter, left them to pasture and then brought them into the barn a week before kidding. I was there when the wild doe kidded and from that day on she became very tame. She learned to lead within a week and I she quickly learned the milking stand routine. I've repeated this with her daughters and so on down the generations. The amount of time it takes to bottle-raise just isn't worth it when I can ultimately end up with an equally tempered animal at 1.5 years of age. The only bottle raised goats I have are my buck and wether and I HATE them! They are always in my space searching for treats and trying to suck on my fingers. (The wether was a quad so I left the 3 doe kids with momma and bottle-raised the wether). As for catching a wild dam-raised kids, a chute and/or catch pen will solve that.

deineria · #24 05/03/10, 10:24 AM

Quote:

I could name on one hand who I would buy a dam raised kid from, and only because I have a personal relationship with the herd to know the status of the herd. Vicki

I am glad to know this because it indicates to me that CAE free herds obviously exist with proper management apart from pulling the kids and feeding heat treated milk/colostrum.

I think one question that hasn't been raised is whether or not you can be sure ANY kid you ever buy was actually born at an attended birth and pull and fed adequately treated
milk. You can be no more sure of that than you can be sure someone is being honest
when they say they bought their goats from a CAE tested free herd and have a CAE free
herd that dam raises their kids.

I am not against pulling the kids or bottle-feeding. We are bottle-feeding four right now.

susanne · #25 05/03/10, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay27

Slightly off topic, since my point is about dam-raised kids and has nothing to do with CAE. Sure dam-raised kids are wild at first, but I don't think it takes much to tame a dam-raised doe. Of my first goats, the doe kid wild as he11. Her mom was shown but the daughter had not been handled. I bred momma and daughter, left them to pasture and then brought them into the barn a week before kidding. I was there when the wild doe kidded and from that day on she became very tame. She learned to lead within a week and I she quickly learned the milking stand routine. I've repeated this with her daughters and so on down the generations. The amount of time it takes to bottle-raise just isn't worth it when I can ultimately end up with an equally tempered animal at 1.5 years of age. The only bottle raised goats I have are my buck and wether and I HATE them! They are always in my space searching for treats and trying to suck on my fingers. (The wether was a quad so I left the 3 doe kids with momma and bottle-raised the wether). As for catching a wild dam-raised kids, a chute and/or catch pen will solve that.

if you just have two or three goats sure, you can tame them. if you have 20 or more, it just takes too much time.
if you want to sell, you can not expect other to have the patience, time and knowledge to tame them before they can milk or handle the animals.
i love giving kids the bottle as this gives me the opportunity to learn as much about their personalities and temperament and if one of my goats is off, i know very early and can do something before it gets serious.
it is just the kind of management i like best for my farm.

wintrrwolf · #26 05/03/10, 12:19 PM

hmmm yeah I bought one of those dam raised kids, frustrating as heck!! But am letting my twin bucklings nurse from mom because 1) I absolutely can not bottle feed as often as a baby would need with my job and 2) I am keeping both of them anyways 3) sinking feeling that when the boys are weaned I am going to be swimming in milk here.

Since mine is a small homesteading farm with me working a full time job, I am aiming towards the way nature originally intended with help from me (the caretaker) when boosts are needed ;P

ozark_jewels · #27 05/03/10, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

if you just have two or three goats sure, you can tame them. if you have 20 or more, it just takes too much time.
if you want to sell, you can not expect other to have the patience, time and knowledge to tame them before they can milk or handle the animals.
i love giving kids the bottle as this gives me the opportunity to learn as much about their personalities and temperament and if one of my goats is off, i know very early and can do something before it gets serious.
it is just the kind of management i like best for my farm.

Exactly. Sure, I could tame a wild goat. Do I have the time?? No.

woadleaf · #28 05/03/10, 05:04 PM

If I spent half the time I do on scalding milk and prepping bottles in the barn socializing those kids I'm sure they would be plenty friendly and people oriented.

Right now, I'm feeling hugely discouraged about the whole CAE prevention deal. No one in this province gives a hoot, if they have any idea about CAE at all, they already know that almost every single goat has it. The only way to get CAE- goats is to ship them in, which puts a major kink in the future of my goat enterprise. Why should I continue?

Pony · #29 05/03/10, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woadleaf

If I spent half the time I do on scalding milk and prepping bottles in the barn socializing those kids I'm sure they would be plenty friendly and people oriented.

Right now, I'm feeling hugely discouraged about the whole CAE prevention deal. No one in this province gives a hoot, if they have any idea about CAE at all, they already know that almost every single goat has it. The only way to get CAE- goats is to ship them in, which puts a major kink in the future of my goat enterprise. Why should I continue?

YOU would have CAE-neg goats, and that may be a very good reason to continue.

You have to start somewhere. At the very least, you will have a clean herd.

Are you scalding goat milk for your kids? I'm using cow milk, and I just fill the bottles and put them into a bucket of very hot water until the come up to a comfortable feeding temp. (I remember my mom heating baby bottles this way.)

It does save me time, as well as burnt milk. (I am not to be trusted with multi-tasking if it involves electrical appliances that get hot.)

Folks 'round here didn't care much about prevention, until one person raised the flag. All it took was another person to agree, and now, slowly, folk are coming around.

I wish you all the best. It's hard being the one voice of dissent.

woadleaf · #30 05/03/10, 06:00 PM

It would be the only reason. I have no desire to doom an innocent animal to a preventable, painful death - call me a softy.

It's goat milk I'm scalding, having to buy cow's milk would be out of the question $-wise. I didn't get dairy goats so I could by MORE milk from the store.

Thanks you for the well wishes, I need it today.

Pony · #31 05/03/10, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woadleaf

It would be the only reason. I have no desire to doom an innocent animal to a preventable, painful death - call me a softy.

It's goat milk I'm scalding, having to buy cow's milk would be out of the question $-wise. I didn't get dairy goats so I could by MORE milk from the store.

Thanks you for the well wishes, I need it today.

Okay, you're a softy.

If I wasn't bottle-feeding four (only have the one doe in milk) I wouldn't be buying cow milk, either. Can't expect my best gal to wear herself out keeping four fed, and haven't yet sold the kids.

Too busy bottle-feeding to take care of that, I guess.

I know some folks enjoy the bottle-feeding thing, but it is NOT my cup of tea.

ozark_jewels · #32 05/03/10, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

I know some folks enjoy the bottle-feeding thing, but it is NOT my cup of tea.

And I sing yet again, "Lambar, Lambar, oh the wonders of the Lambar"!!

Pony · #33 05/03/10, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

And I sing yet again, "Lambar, Lambar, oh the wonders of the Lambar"!!

Nick and I were looking at parts for building one at the hardware store.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #34 05/03/10, 09:53 PM

I think one question that hasn't been raised is whether or not you can be sure ANY kid you ever buy was actually born at an attended birth and pull and fed adequately treated
milk. You can be no more sure of that than you can be sure someone is being honest
when they say they bought their goats from a CAE tested free herd and have a CAE free
herd that dam raises their kids.
..................................

I test all purchased kids, they would have no rise in titer, and biotracking.com gives you titer level to track, if they truely were from a negative herd. If the kid is borderline or positive than the kid got positive colostrum, heat treated or not, it initially will be elevated. I would not keep the kid because it would be a breech of contract, you said your does were negative. They all can't be if this kid reacts on the test. Vicki

susanne · #35 05/03/10, 10:18 PM

wrong. titer is influenced by more then only from digested contaminated milk.
reacent vaccination for example will give you higher numbers. or an infection of another form, for example pneumonia will show you higher numbers.
and since you test very often (at least what you tell on the internet

)
you must have seen numbers at higher range too.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #36 05/03/10, 10:58 PM

Susanne I was talking about infant kids. I have never had a kid test even near borderline, and we are talking purchasing kids and proving they aren't from a positive doe. An infant goatling picked up before vaccinaton wouldn't react to the test with a high number.

Yes numbers in the higher range but not positive in adults in vaccinated animals and I have heard sick ones going to borderline also. Yes we can get an adult doe into borderline with vaccination especially multiple vaccines given at once, but less than 10 days later it goes down to a prevaccinated number. I don't even pull blood prebreeding or prekidding anyway but if I did I would have them tested by the new owners after this 10 day window.

I test yearly, now with biotracking.com doing pregnancy checks, I test the herd at the same time for both CAE and pregnancy each fall, I don't think that is often. I also don't keep testing my adult older does, after 5, because they will never be sold anyway.

Not sure who would buy a sick kid and test it and/or waste money testing an ill doe.

I love biotracking.com it's nice having my money each year going to a lab on the cutting edge and not just happy with the status quo, raking in the money with nothing new for all the years they have been open. And a lab owner who has the ear of dairygoat folks, even doing polls on Face Book. Vicki