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03/29/10, 02:09 PM
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Katie
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Twining, Mi.
Posts: 19,930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehimama
I'm so sorry. What a horrible end for Coffee, and so horrible for you and bf to witness. I hope that time will heal your heart, as it must have broken.
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Mine is breaking for you now also Jill, I can hardly type this for the tears but want you to know I'm thinking of you & sending you my Hug's too. I lost my favorite goat last summer, he was a wether & I still miss him terribly. Some goats or any pet for that matter just touch our hearts & our lives like no other can & we Love them.
RIP Coffee girl !!
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03/29/10, 02:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 1,492
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A gentle correction. Australian Cattle Dogs and Aussie's (Australian Shepards) are two VERY DIFFERENT breeds of dogs.
Jill, thanks for the post, you are brave. I will ckeck our fences tonight.
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03/29/10, 02:47 PM
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Family Jersey Dairy
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,773
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Jill I am very sorry for the loss of your goat "coffee", but please do not be mad at GOD, he did not kill your goat. He loves you, and your goat, and your dogs, it was the situation that was bad. And you do not have to kill your dogs, adopt them out to one dog per household to someone else. And to all of you, never own more than one or two dogs at one time. We have an old dog and then get a young dog. My father always said, "if you have one dog you have a good dog, you have two dogs you have half a dog, and if you have three or more dogs you have a pack". And yes I never have the vet out to put down an animal, I feel it is my job to put them out of their misery. And I know your goat ment the world to you , but the world goes on, there will be more goats, and you can love another goat again. Your dear Coffee will not mind if you love another goat, she would rather you love another than not. And remember, if you don`t want to loose animals, please do not have them. Maybe I have become hardened into the loss of animals from my many years of farming, but I still enjoy them, and feel fortunate to be able to have had them in my life. Once again sorry for your loss, but heal and move on. Thanks Marc
__________________
Our Diversified Stock Portfolio: cows and calves, alpacas, horses, pigs, chickens, goats, sheep, cats ... and a couple of dogs... 
http://springvalleyfarm.4mg.com
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03/29/10, 03:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 1,618
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Marc & thaiblue12 are right. These dogs just need adopted out, and there might be cattle or horse folks that could work with them and train them to work with large livestock.
It is absurd to suggest that dogs that have killed livestock are dangerous around people as some here have suggested to you. Do not feel like you must put them down because of this. They just shouldn't be around goats or other small livestock, that is all. Contact an Australian Cattle Dog rescue.
Again, I just dealt with almost the same thing, and it is very sad, and it has made me sure I need a well trained LGD. We are talking with a man now about bringing his well trained 5 yr old Pyr here when he no longer needs him in a month.
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03/29/10, 03:02 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,222
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Jill if you do rehome your ACD's consider contacting New Hope Cattle Dog Rescue. Like I said we have and have raised Cattle doGs for many years, they while a herding dog are very different from Australian shepherds.
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Sarah Patterson
M & L Farm
Lamanchas, lamancha cross, Sable and Sable cross
You can also find us on facebook! M&L Farm
http://www.mandllamanchas.com *UPDATED*
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03/29/10, 03:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Sorry for the tragic loss of the goat.
However the ABUSE of the dogs after the fact accomplished nothing. I've been in your shoes in the past and the frustration and rage is real, but beating the dogs was not appropriate.
I know this may appear to be kicking you when you are down, but hopefully others will learn from your experience.
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03/29/10, 03:24 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 788
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Jill, I am so sorry. I have watched and read your story with Coffee. What a brave fighter that little one has always been. and you were always there, right to the end, an end you didn't expect. I'm just so glad you were able to be there when Coffee needed you to help end the suffering. I know you feel terrible, you will for quite a while, Coffee was a member of your family. Just know there is no more pain, no more hurt, no more fear where Coffee is now. Let time do it's work for you.
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03/29/10, 03:46 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 3,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy J
Sorry for the tragic loss of the goat.
However the ABUSE of the dogs after the fact accomplished nothing. I've been in your shoes in the past and the frustration and rage is real, but beating the dogs was not appropriate.
I know this may appear to be kicking you when you are down, but hopefully others will learn from your experience.
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No, it doesn't appear to be kicking me while I'm down; it IS kicking me while I'm down. I am a well educated 35 yr old woman; a combat veteran of the Iraq war, and highly intelligent. Of COURSE abusing the dogs was not appropriate. But go ahead and throw the stone; I'm sure your glass house will remain standing a few days longer.
The ABUSE of those dogs was a "best of the worst" on the list of choices I had in my muddled head at the time. I could have abused myself, I could have run bloody and screaming through the streets and been put in jail, I could have run my truck over the nearest embankment. At that moment, I was capable of anything. The thrashing of 4 dogs over whom I am lord and master is something I won't live with easily; but I WILL live with it.
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...'o shame on the mothers of mortals, who have not stopped to teach; of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes; the sorrow that has no speech... from -'Voice of the Voicless', Ella Wheeler Wilcox
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03/29/10, 03:50 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 1,713
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I am so very sorry to hear about Coffee. I can not imagine how you must feel and want you to know I am thinking of you.....
Not all dogs forget, depends on the breed. Some breeds have a retentive memory. The dogs were just being dogs but if it was my dog she woudl be lucky if all she got was a savage beating. The farm dog broke into the chicken coop 2 summers agoand killed 10 chickens and in my rage I beat her savagely, she has never looked at a chicken since. I think she remembers.
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03/29/10, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,739
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Jill, I just wanted to say that I think you are very brave to post about beating the dogs. I nearly killed my dog when she went after a chicken and my husband didn't let me forget that for a long time. You are being open and honest about your reaction. You aren't bragging about what a good lesson you taught them. You are stating your actions. They were very intense actions but it's what you did. I can't even imagine what I would have done.
And I agree with jil101ca. My dog knows when she has screwed up even if it was hours ago and I find something "amiss" upon return. The dog will actually hide from me. She knows...
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03/29/10, 04:01 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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im sorry for your loss.
but please find new homes for the dogs.
you will never love them like they need to be after this, you will never look at them the same and they cannot be trusted around small livestock.
there are wonderfull homes for them out there where they can live out their lives and not be put in a situation to have something like this happen again.
for those who feel a taste of blood will make a dog go blood crazy, please start some forward thinking, its been proven that this is not the case (my dogs have been raw fed, theyve tasted blood daily, and kill rats and mice, yet they love chickens and cats...it dodesnt make them crazy...
this however has become a pack, and whatever triggered them to attack could be triggered again...
so for their saftey, and for your own sanity.
i cannot offer you anything in the terms religious advice...
but please try not to remember the horrible...instead focus on the love and joy brought...
im sure coffee wouldnt want you to punish yourselves.
*hugs*
as a side note (im a animal behaviourist so felt the need to mention this given some responces...)
dogs dont connect what they did wrong after the fact...
when a dog hides when youve come home and somethings wrong...its not because they KNOW they did something worng, its because they are the masters of reading body language, they notice a change in your body language, tone of voice and scent of hormones, its THAT they are reacting to.
they dont know WHAT they did...
they DO however know that your mad at them and they should appease you (cowering hiding urinating ect)
When your dog cowers in a situation EVERY time it comes up its not because they associate their say killing of chickens as bad...they just remember that last time they showed interest in those chickens they got a beating...now they associate CHICKENS with being beaten...not nessicarily killing chickens with being beaten...
now do i agree with beating the dogs...NEVER...
BUT i also know how rage, anger, sorrow ect feels and i cannot fault someone for exploding in any way in a situation like this...
for those who have bouts of this fury frequently i suggest seeking help for anger managment...
Last edited by FoxyWench; 03/29/10 at 04:07 PM.
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03/29/10, 04:22 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,350
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I think when folks say "taste of blood" they mean "acted on prey drive". And yes, I know what the books say, and I know what we lived. to each their own.
I know all the books say animal aggression and human is different and it may very well be. Still, in my book, it's an unacceptable risk with little people around who squeal, move erratically, and generally act like prey. *shrug* YMMV.
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03/29/10, 04:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sc
Posts: 3,364
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((hugs))
Years ago my best goat's rear end was ripped off by my own dog when a wolf hybrid came over "to visit". once he was "gone" our dog never hurt any of our goats after that. It was a pack thing.
Last edited by tailwagging; 03/29/10 at 04:28 PM.
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03/29/10, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA
Posts: 931
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Sorry for your loss, I can not imagine what you are going through! I check my fences regularly. My biggest fear is having a dog get in with my calves, goats, chickens and turkeys. They all live together, and are all so helpless. I have spoke to all my neighbors and warned them as politely as I can that if I catch any of their dogs in my fenced yard they will be SHOT! My fences are all in good shape and I would be heart broken if any dog mine or a neighbors, was to hurt them! Same goes for my dogs, it would break my heart but I would never trust the dog again. I have 2 young children, and one on the way, it is not worth the risk to me.
My condolences (((((hugs)))))
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03/29/10, 04:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 131
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Coffee...
My heart goes out to you, your boyfriend, coffee and your dogs. You all will remain in my prayers. I know you will see her again, because what would heaven be like without the animals we loved so dearly here on earth.
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I plan on living forever...so far so good!
MrsFarmerWilly
Fairie Glenn Farm
Kentucky
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03/29/10, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,108
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 I am so sorry you are going through this. Thank you for being brave and posting the details. I have been through something similar and all I can tell you is that it took me 2 years to come to terms with the guilt and the anger towards God. I still have flashbacks of the tragedy and it continues to stop my heart and breathing. Luckily for me when it happened I had some valium on hand that I took for a few days and I feel that is what kept me from causing injury to the others involved (in this case it was 2 horses) I stayed in bed for the most part....for a long time. All I can tell you is that the intensity of the whole episode (finding her, her injuries, the vet) does wear off a little with time. Now I have my hubby give me signal that everything is ok when ever he walks in the door from outside because my heart would stop and I would go back to that day when he walked in the door to tell me what had happened outside. We just started doing that and I wished we would have thought of it sooner. there are certain triggers that we can address to avoid getting the flashbacks. I know where you are at...it is so painful, so tragic, so horrific...I truly feel for you.
You can pm me if you want to talk more about it....
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Teach only Love...for that is what You are 
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03/29/10, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,012
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Oh, I am so sorry for both you and poor Coffee. I was crying also when I was reading.
I know the rage you experienced-only it was my son, 24 years ago, he survived. I did the same. It's an uncontrollable unleashing of your innermost rage. Yes I know it.
May God Bless You. Time will heal. Do what you feel, your feelings will lead the way to healing. Sending big cyber hugs to you and prayers for healing.
HF
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03/29/10, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Natural Bridge, VA
Posts: 492
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Saying I'm sorry seems like such an insignificant thing for me to say but it's heartfelt and I hope you know how many of us can feel your pain. I hope in time you'll find peace. Because of your post today you will save other goat's lives. I was much more cautious today after reading about your tragedy.
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03/29/10, 05:28 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 957
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I am so, so sorry. I cannot even imagine having that image in your head. I understand your anger towards your dogs. It's hard to remember that animals don't understand savagery in the way humans do, especially when they've hurt something dear to you. (Also, don't feel that you abused them. Abuse is something done continually or out of cruelty, not when you hit something maybe harder that you really should have because you were angry and hurt.)
I will pray for you, not only that you can make peace with God, but that the images will fade from your mind, and at least get duller. Just remember that God doesn't cause horrible things to happen - the absence of God (sin/evil) in the world does.
Instead of remembering her end, picture her now in heaven eating the tastiest weeds ever!
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03/29/10, 05:51 PM
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Legally blonde!
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,315
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I sent you a PM Jill, I am so sorry about what happened  .
I do want to say (didn't say it in the PM) that not all dogs when this happens have to be put down. The almost exact same thing happened with our first goat. Our dogs are German Shepherds though but they took down our first goat. I was ready to with my bare hands tear those dogs from limb to limb not caring because of what they did to my girl. I wouldn't look or touch them for weeks afterwords. After years of working with them they can be around our newborn kids on the farm and the herd but NEVER are they left alone with them and even then I don't trust the oldest one (the younger one we have now wasn't apart of what happened with my girl as we didn't have him then). But they CAN be trained in some cases. Obviously there are always exceptions as with ours we believe is was the thrill of the chase then came the blood. They have never shown aggression out side of that incident otherwise I would have raised holy heck about not getting rid of the dogs.
But this is just IMHO and this is in answer to Ronnie's post. I am so sorry Jill and to anyone who has ever had this happen. I have seen what a pack of dogs will do to animals but it is always 10 times worse when they are your own. I will never forget what I felt towards our dogs at that time. My prayers go out to you guys Jill.
Justine
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