Overburned Disbudding Pygmies?

It looks like he used an X50 Rhinehart iron on them without the goat tip.

It is easy to buy a goat tip, so why not gift him with one- or find a way to get the info to him about the X30, which is a goat iron. The X50 is not for goats without a goat tip on it.....

Oh, forgot....you may want to get them some opthalmic ointment- they have tetracycline opthalmic at many feed stores- it will keep the lids moist and the splits not prone to infections.

Bricheze, Minelson is right. If you fear repurcussions, go to the dean first, show pics, provide explanations.

Teachers are held to a higher standard for a reason. If this man does not behave in an ethical way, he (at the very least) NEEDS to have his mistake pointed out to him. As you stated yourself, people put their trust in him for the simple fact that he IS "The Teacher" and they look to him as an authority.

(Having been in teaching positions myself, I can tell you that there is usually no true screening process to ensure that faculty hires are any good other than their credentials -- and the guy who finishes dead last in the class gets the same degree as the Summa Cum Laude grad.)

Please, do the morally right thing and report this guy to the dean ASAP.

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Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

I agree that the teacher should have researched before trying this procedure. I agree there was no reason for these poor little animals to suffer as they are. I agree the teacher should have picked up on the swelling and persued ways to alleviate the pain. And I agree the outcome is not what was expected, and that this was not intentional cruelty.

Having said that, I don't feel the teacher should be crucified for the mistake he made. I do think he should seek how to perform this procedure correctly, and a very valuable lesson has been taught to the students.

Why would I post such a thing? Because we've all had our first time attempting something we are unfamiliar with. I ask you, would we be taking the same stance if the goats had died or suffered neurological symptoms because he did not have Epeniphrine on hand-how many of you actually keep this on hand? What if there was an infection from a simple banding technique? Hoof trimming job cut far too deep? What about copper bolusing too much and the animal suffered from toxitity issues? Listeriosis from moldy grain? These things are also untintentional but are painful for the animal.

An additional thought is that it is possible the kids were disbudded the prior night, and it so happens that Brichese saw them after the teacher had left for the day or evening, and he was not aware, but became aware afterwards.
We do not know the circumstances so it is hard to tell. Now if he does this a second time.....well... by all means he should be reported. But please remember this teacher is working with "our" kids, the future farmers. I don't know about you, but around here teachers who are willing to step in a little bit of poop are rare indeed. I say provide him with knowledge so he is informed for the next time, as someone stated gift a goat care book to him.

It is also hard to follow that this person did not research proper techniques, but perhaps thought disbudding a cow was similar to disbudding a goat. I can actually see this line of thinking in the ignorant, though I know better.

Bricheze, if I were in your situation I would talk with the teacher, explaining the proper technique, and even print out instructions from your favorite website showing pictures and all.

We've all made stupid mistakes, unfortunately the animals suffer for it, and we must try to do our best to make it right.
HF

It would have been more correct if the teacher had brought a vet who is familiar with disbudding to show everyone, inc. teacher, the way to do it- or at least someone who has been keeping goats for a long time and has the technique lazered into their brains- there may even be some YouTube videos of it- I know there is a great one for castration.

Anyway, you might take a witness with you so there won't be any chance of him accusing you of being out of line or anything........

I'm still not reporting him, as other have mentioned in this thread, he is an ag teacher, and those are already hard enough to come by. He is an expert when it comes to caring for sheep, pigs, and cows. If I reported him and he lost his job, and if they could find a replacement, the replacement probably would still know nothing about goats, and also know almost nothing about sheep, pigs, or cows. Which would lead to accidental neglect for all the animals, instead of just the goats; although it might not be as extreme as it has been for the goats. If they didn't find a replacement, it would mean shutting down the program (that has over 200 students), and forcing all of the students to sell all of their projects; and many have spent years on them.

And, also has it has been mentioned, he did not mean to do harm intentionally. He wasn't being cruel or trying to hurt the babies; it was an accident, an incredibly stupid accident, but an accident none the less.


I've been putting together my own goat 'bible' from various websites, that I can keep with me when I am on the field with goats, so I don't have to go home and google for info if I forget something or haven't dealt with something before. For right now, I'll start making copies of this to give to the teacher as well as other students with goats. I'm also planning on having a meeting with all the goat people to go over what needs to be done to ensure the health and safety of all the goats, and why it is important to do research before any type of procedure that hasn't been done before. And why, if your ever not sure that the class is doing the right thing to handle a situation, they can always call me and ask about it.

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Bricheze, how are the babies today?

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Teach only Love...for that is what You are

Please update us and let us know how the babies are doing? Thanks!

I am so glad my goats have to have horns for that reason.

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Raising Beautiful Cashmere goats, to produce the best quality cashmere.
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Lori

Is no one at least going to address this 1:1 with the instructor?

The thing is, yes, of course we all make mistakes. I'm one of the biggest mistake-makers in the universe -- but I need to know that I messed up so that I can learn and not make the mistakes again.

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Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

I haven't been to check on them, I'm going to head over there in an hour or so to see how they are doing, no one has called me, so they are probably okay.

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Yeah, I am going to talk with him tomorrow.

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Bricheze, one thing that I don't understand... does this teacher KNOW he screwed up? You mentioned "they" didn't know anything was wrong... are you seriously saying this teacher saw the current condition of these animals and thought it was acceptable? Or did he not see the results of his experiment?

I don't have goats but love to check out this forum, and I, as an inexperienced, goatless observer would have assumed that a CALF DISBUDDER does not properly fit a GOAT KID, let alone a pygmy! How does this guy not realize this! It's like he's taking the disbudder and playing horseshoes with these kids' horns instead of putting on a tight burn - how could he think this would be a successful strategy, and a teacher at that!

Please, please tell me he realizes the extreme error of his ways, and if he doesn't, that you will make sure he does!

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Wise enough to know I'll never be wise enough to know it all

The sheep started lambing yesterday morning and he most of gone home before they got really swollen the day of disbudding. He saw the kids yesterday morning, but didn't really look at them because of the sheep, I was the first person to actually look at them since the disbudding a day before. I would have thought a glance would have noticed something was wrong, but apparently no one else noticed anything was wrong until I got there.

I know it was incredibly stupid, but you have to remember, I am an old student of his, it will be hard to get him to take me seriously.

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If you think it's bad that a teacher would do that, a vet here in Montana used one of those big irons on a friend's Nigerian babies. I didn't see them but the friend had horror stories. The poor things had burned heads and ears. They had to be treated with antibiotics. When her does kidded the following year, I disbudded them. After that, I think she quit breeding them as they are mainly pets.

Bricheze,

Would you consider putting a "goat" binder together in the vo-ag goat center? Thinking a 3-ring binder, with common techniques printed, behind plastic. Perhaps it could be hung on a chain from the wall for reference. This could be used as a reference for all students.

I would not, however, recommend putting articles concerning sick animals (teenagers may mis-diagnose). I'm talking common vaccines, dosages, & frequencies, proper hoof trimming & pictures, disbudding equipment & techniques, shearing, milking, normal birthing, things like that. A goat book would be good also, but not for students for the teacher.

If you think this would work I can send you $20.00 to help cover the costs of the binder & sleeves if you would be interested in collecting/printing the information.
HF

One would think an agriculture teacher would have enough common sense to kow that a calf iron would be too big. My hubby knows that and he knows nothing about my goats...

It's amazing how much better they look today. They are both swollen but can see again, and seem to have good coordination/vision; I don't think there is any permanent sight damage on one of them, but the other I'm still not sure. The dex did it's job, either then the possibility of infection, I think we're pretty much out of the woods.

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Thank God. I can't tell you how shaken up I am from this. Hubby doesn't even want me to come to the forum anymore. I didn't even look at all the pictures...I saw the first one for split second and quickly scrolled away.
I still feel that since this is a teacher, someone higher up should be made aware of the mistake. He probably wouldn't loose his job over it anyway. I don't think anyone needs to be crucified. I work at a Vet and if and when I make a mistake I have to deal with the consequences with my boss...everyone does unless they don't get caught.
My offer still stands that if there is problem finding home for them due to disfigurement or blindness I will try to find a way to get them and give them a good home here.
I'm so glad they are doing better.

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Teach only Love...for that is what You are

A thought would be to print these replies off and show them to him - it might make him angry, but it would let him see just how AWFUL what he did was and why he should take serious note of it. I would consider doing that. If he will not take you seriously, I would really, really think about giving him these replies in a print out and how could he not realize what he did was horrifying?

Glad they will make it, it sounds like.