Overburned Disbudding Pygmies?

Minelson · #21 02/02/10, 07:02 PM

Bricheze, If these burned babies make it I will take them if a home can not be found. How many are there? I don't know how I would get them but I just want to let you that I am open to try to figure something out. Thank goodness you are there to help them out or put them out of their misery if needed.

Bricheze · #22 02/02/10, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

Bricheze, If these burned babies make it I will take them if a home can not be found. How many are there? I don't know how I would get them but I just want to let you that I am open to try to figure something out. Thank goodness you are there to help them out or put them out of their misery if needed.

Thanks, they have a good owner, it was the current care takers that did this. It's a long story. Anyways, I'll keep you in mind if they need a home.

I think they have a good chance of making it through the night, and if they do, then I'm sure they'll make it over the next couple of days. I'll keep you guys posted and I'll check on them one more time tonight. Oh and it's just the two in the pictures.

deineria · #23 02/02/10, 07:40 PM

OMG - I wish I'd not seen that, but I am glad, as everyone stated, the little things now have someone to try to help them. I am not sure I'd let them suffer to see if they make it. I would highly recommend telling the people they need to be put down. I just can't imagine letting them live through that kind of pain to see if they make it, but I understand they aren't yours and you can't demand them to do one thing or the other - but I would really push it.

What stupid and awful people to have done such a thing!

southerngurl · #24 02/02/10, 07:48 PM

Poor things! The swelling looks somewhat external, so it may be ok.

issylthesthlia · #25 02/02/10, 08:20 PM

Oh, that breaks my heart! The poor babies!

Bricheze · #26 02/02/10, 08:31 PM

Okay you guys probably want to know the full story on 'these people'.

It's an agriculture class, and the guy who did this is a teacher. He is a good teacher, he grew up on a dairy farm for cows and has done a lot of work with cows, pigs, and sheep. But he has almost no experience with goats. A student of his got a pygmy from a friend, who unexpectedly gave birth a couple of weeks ago, to twins. She didn't know anything about disbudding and didn't know better when they did it yesterday (I just talked to her) she was crying the entire time because she loves the kids and she said it looked like it hurt a lot (as we all know... first disbudding experience) I found her on facebook and told her she should check on them tonight, because they were really swollen. I left her my cell number, and she called me and asked about it because didn't know anything had gone wrong, yesterday they were up acting sore but normal (I told the teacher to call her and tell her what was up, apparently he didn't) Then she cried all the way driving down here because she knew they were in pain and she was worried about losing them.

I met her at the farm and checked on the kids. They are both doing a lot better since getting dex earlier, one looks swollen still, but doesn't look like it will have permanent damage, the other one (the pic of the eye above) one eye still looks really bad, but the other one looks okay. They are almost out of the '36 hour woods' (when they could still go into convulsions from the brain swelling) and she is going to stay their a couple of hours and watch them.

She loves the goats, but she has zero experience. She is looking upto a teacher that doesn't really know what he's doing. It's all a big mess and I am doing my best to keep all these goats under good care, but I'm still kind of new to goats myself and I still rely on my own mentor a ton. The worst part is that they will all take his advice over mine, because he is the teacher, but he is just making educated guesses from working with sheep and dairy cattle!

nehimama · #27 02/02/10, 08:45 PM

I'm so sorry this happened to those poor babies, and I'm SO glad you're there to help and to care. The pictures just make me cry.

Backfourty,MI. · #28 02/02/10, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormwalker

Unbelievable!
These people should be up on charges!

Seeing those poor little babies like that just breaks my heart! That teacher is teaching nothing but irresponsiblity & animal cruelty. What kind of teacher of agriculture does a procedure like that to a poor little pygmy goat & knows nothing about them & then not think anything is wrong when he looks at them!!
It makes me so mad!!

No one is Blaming you Bircheze & thank Goodness for you they are getting some relief finally.

I really think you should turn him in, Charges should definately be brought against this teacher & he should definately not be disbudding anyone's goats!
I wouldn't trust him to disbud my cattle if I had any even!!

Bricheze · #29 02/02/10, 09:05 PM

He's over stretching his abilities by letting so many students get goats. That's the problem. There are 17 goats there now, most of them are ND's and Pygmies. But we aren't going to find a better teacher as is (we live in the middle of a city) I was one of his students so it's hard for me to have a serious conversation about it; but I will for sure this time. If anything like this happens again I'll have no choice but to report it, anything else is irresponsible. But I'm just going to warn him this time, we really don't have any other options as far as a teacher is concerned; and really he is very passionate and loves animals, he just is very very undereducated and over confident when it comes to goats.

BethW · #30 02/02/10, 09:14 PM

Oh, have mercy. The cruelty of this makes me nauseated and now I'm in tears.

Those poor babies.

KimM · #31 02/02/10, 09:23 PM

I pray there isn't a "next time". Please tell us there's no more pregnant ones. I would at least file a complaint with a vet's report.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricheze

He's over stretching his abilities by letting so many students get goats. That's the problem. There are 17 goats there now, most of them are ND's and Pygmies. But we aren't going to find a better teacher as is (we live in the middle of a city) I was one of his students so it's hard for me to have a serious conversation about it; but I will for sure this time. If anything like this happens again I'll have no choice but to report it, anything else is irresponsible. But I'm just going to warn him this time, we really don't have any other options as far as a teacher is concerned; and really he is very passionate and loves animals, he just is very very undereducated and over confident when it comes to goats.

Bricheze · #32 02/02/10, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KimM

I pray there isn't a "next time". Please tell us there's no more pregnant ones. I would at least file a complaint with a vet's report.

Yeah, I wish there were no pregnant ones. There are 7 pregnant ones. I know it's ridiculous, it's because when I was in the program, he let me buy two pregnant does and breed out their kids, so he says other people should have the same chance.

The difference is, is I have spent a lot of time learning how to care for goats, I have a mentor, and I planned on keeping my goats after I graduated from school; but there isn't much I can do to stop it.

KimM · #33 02/02/10, 09:34 PM

Maybe you could bring your mentor in to do the disbudding?? And maybe teach him how. But then he'd never get a second chance with my animals. That job showed a total lack of common sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricheze

Yeah, I wish there were no pregnant ones. There are 7 pregnant ones. I know it's ridiculous, it's because when I was in the program, he let me buy two pregnant does and breed out their kids, so he says other people should have the same chance.

The difference is, is I have spent a lot of time learning how to care for goats, I have a mentor, and I planned on keeping my goats after I graduated from school; but there isn't much I can do to stop it.

thaiblue12 · #34 02/02/10, 09:36 PM

A teacher

and he does not see that anything is wrong with the babies?
Honestly if I was the owner I would shove them in his face and ask him why he mutilated the babies.
Someone should have him read a good goat book.

Do you know a good vet or a very experienced goat person who could come out and do sort of a lecture/demo about goats health care and the correct way to disbud to all the new goat owners? Even if the "teacher" does not attend the new goat owners might get a better education on how to care for their goats.

I hope they continue to do well and are not in much pain now.

Bricheze · #35 02/02/10, 09:40 PM

I usually go over to my mentors farm and shadow him, he might be willing to come over and teach, no reason not to ask.

deineria · #36 02/02/10, 10:34 PM

I would report it somehow and someway. Someone that could make such a horrific mistake shouldn't be allowed to teach. I'd never have done such a thing even if I hadn't read a thing on goats. Again, I think it is fortunate you've seen it, have been able to alleviate some of the suffering of these little ones and can maybe act to prevent this from happening again.
I am sorry you've had to see it in person. I'm not sure I could stand it.

LaManchaPaul · #37 02/02/10, 10:41 PM

GEEEEZZ!!!! How awful!

Minelson · #38 02/02/10, 10:43 PM

Bricheze, I seriously think you need to do some hard thinking on this about reporting this teacher to someone NOW. Nobody in their right mind would attempt doing this to a baby without knowing what they are doing and using the wrong equipment. When I was looking for someone to disbud my baby minis, I talked to several people who said they did calves but did not know how to do a small goat...and didn't have the right equipment to do it. There was no "well, I could try" or "should be about the same" kind of response...there was an immediate "no, I have never done a goat I only have done calves". This is a teacher and no matter how much he loves animals he needs to held accountable for this. It comes with the job of being in that position. Is there a higher authority at the school that you can go to with this? Has anything similar to this happened before that you are aware of? Maybe not as bad but close? Please just think about it. Or tell someone else. Are there guidance counselors at the school that you could talk to about this? What does your Mentor think about it...did he see the pics?

thaiblue12 · #39 02/02/10, 11:40 PM

She might not feel comfortable reporting him since her animals are still there, he will continue to be her teacher and they are not her goats. If I was the actual owner I would get in his face but not everyone is comfortable doing that.
I do not think he was intentionally cruel to these babies, I think he was negligent and ignorant. Both of those led to the the nasty painful disbudding we saw, but not because he decided to just burn the snot out of them. While it is cruel and made me sick to look at it, I do not think it was true animal cruelty; doing it because he gets a kick out of it.

I think a goat seminar, wether he attends or not would be helpful. Since the rest have little to no goat experience and go to him for advice maybe getting good advice will help them all. Plus they will know Bricheze gets info from her mentor and hopefully will ask her, or have her ask the mentor for advice in the future.
Also a good idea to offer to them hoof trimming and disbudding for $5 a head. Affordable to them and avoids the teacher entirely.
Hopefully all the others will see these kids and not use him in the future, or not take him as seriously when it comes to goats.

stormwalker · #40 02/02/10, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricheze

. But I'm just going to warn him this time, we really don't have any other options as far as a teacher is concerned; and really he is very passionate and loves animals, he just is very very undereducated and over confident when it comes to goats.

There are always better options.