HELP! HELP NOW! Goat can't swallow; drooling

Yes, I keep reading about the differences and similarities between Polio and Listeriosis. She has been QUICKLY treated for both (the Thiamine for Polio, the LA 200 and fluids for Listeriosis).

I am very lucky in that I only have three goats, and this particular one is The Pet, so when I go to feed, I am very "Aware" of her attitude and mood. Last night, she gobbled her grain just like every other night. This AM, she didn't even notice I put it in front of her, so I believe I caught this within 8-10 hours of it presenting; VERY LUCKY for her/me!

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...'o shame on the mothers of mortals, who have not stopped to teach; of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes; the sorrow that has no speech... from -'Voice of the Voicless', Ella Wheeler Wilcox

great news!

Also take a look at your hay and grains for mold if you think it was listeriosis. A friend of mine just had a sick doe over the holidays with this.

I just lost a doe to listeriosis. And that sounds exactly like the simptons that she had. The Thiamine is a very good idea but if it is listeriosis she need procaine penicillin ASAP

Read http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...steriosis.html

wow I use that website for goat info also
they have the best articles and basic good to know goat info

I have used this website forever--many many moons..LOL

I believe the LA 200 is oxytetracycline, another fast-acting antibiotic used for listeriosis.

She is doing fabulously well, just got more SQ fluids, but did drink on her own and took another 60 cc oral dose of warm water and an ounce of nutridrench.

She'll get 2cc of Thiamine again before bed.

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...'o shame on the mothers of mortals, who have not stopped to teach; of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes; the sorrow that has no speech... from -'Voice of the Voicless', Ella Wheeler Wilcox

Maybe as a follow up you can get a fecal done.
The stress of this will have suppressed her immune function allowing any resident parasites to take advantage.
B~

Yeah, Thiamine can't ever hurt. I hope she continues to improve.

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Becky

I lost a wether to either polio or listeriosis back when I just had two for pets, didn't know how to diagnose/treat at home, and thought that vets knew what was best... My vet of COURSE didn't know what was wrong with it and diagnosed pneumonia... Of course, to him, EVERYTHING (including diarrhea!) is pneumonia.

Glad to hear you have a good vet and that your goat is doing better - hope to hear about a full recovery!

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Dona Barski

"Breed the best, eat the rest"

Caprice Acres

French and American Alpines. CAE, Johnes neg herd. Abscess free. LA, DHIR.

I lost my little wether to listeriosis because I stopped the antibiotics too soon. He was doing great on day 4 and did a 180 on day 5. Couldn't swallow and his head was rotated to the left.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

Our doe we lost had listeriosis but also had preg toxemia, ketosis and pneumonia. She was paralyzed on her right side of her head (ears, jaw, "throat" so drenching was basically drooling out or drowning her, eyelid did not close). Onset of symptoms was about 2 hours (from feed time to first sign of drooling). She actually died during surgery for c-section, but was due to all the complications. They thought the babies were dead and was poisoning her system. She ended up dieing and 3 spoiled brats are living in our house (can you imagine!!!) being bottle fed. But they're cute brats!
Vet said listeriosis (in Missouri) is appearing frequently this year due to all the rain. If I understood him correctly, listeria is not contagious but could be contracted through the same source (ie hay, browse area or whatever). He said it was not something we could have prevented, it just is...that we did everything right with our early detection, jumped on the treatment process but she just had too many things going against her I guess.

Glad she is better. Whether goat polio or listeria, be aggressive in your treatments and as fishhead said, don't stop too soon.
Sandra

Just checking in; she's still improving. Opened the door from the kitchen to the attached garage where she is staying, and was greeted with an up-goat; in her hay.

I gave her 1.5cc Thiamine, and offered her a bucket of warm water which she drank greedily; about 20oz. Also gave her the 60cc oral syringe with the warm water/nutridrench mix and BIG HUGS

She will get another 4.5cc dose of the LA 200 this evening, unless someone wants to advise me otherwise... the vet gave me two doses, and said to give them 48 hours apart, under the skin. So her first dose was at 2:00pm yesterday (Sunday the 3rd). Per the vet, she shouldn't get her next dose until 2:00pm TUESDAY, but I keep reading here and there on goat sites that even the LA 200 ("long acting") needs to be given closer together than THAT....(remember, this is going under the skin, not in the muscle..)

check-in: LA-200 Sub-Q dosing schedule for Caprine treatment of Listeriosis??

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...'o shame on the mothers of mortals, who have not stopped to teach; of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes; the sorrow that has no speech... from -'Voice of the Voicless', Ella Wheeler Wilcox

I just found this article, written by a non-vet, about her experience with Listeriosis. Quite obviously, her goats were stricken much more severley than mine (and bigger goaties, too), but she did successfully use the LA 200 at the every-48 hour dosing, so now I'm on the fence about it again.... here's the link...

http://celticknotlm.com/Listeriosis.htm

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...'o shame on the mothers of mortals, who have not stopped to teach; of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes; the sorrow that has no speech... from -'Voice of the Voicless', Ella Wheeler Wilcox

I'm glad your goat is doing better. With her quick response to treatment, my bet is that you're dealing with polio.

I'd have started with Procaine Pen or PenG too, Listeria is a gram pos bacteria and well treated with penicilan. Tetracycline is a broad spectrum but it works OK too, smaller doses and obviously its working so I'd keep her on it! I'm wondering why the thiamin or lowering the dosage of thiamin at least. I'd use a B complex unless I was sure it was polio. I'd also keep up the banamine..... although if your vet agreed dexamthasone is better. Monitor her symptoms and do not stop too soon. I may have missed it but what was her temperature? Two treatments sounds a little weak to me, even with a spaced apart LA drug. With such a fast recovery I wonder about Listeria, we've had it in sheep here and it was considerably more serious than that

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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup........

The Thiamine is to keep her rumen functioning through hard stress; it IS the "cure" for Polio, but it is also indicated whenever a goat has been off feed & water and stressed.

The Thiamine at 2cc is a huge whack, because the bottle of Thiamine I was dispensed is the 500mg/mL strength. So she'll still be "high" at 1.5cc doses; she's only about a 80-90# goatie!

Because she is a five-year old, not a youngster, is why we are leaning toward Listerioisis. Also, we have had a horrible stretch of wet, wet, wet weather (10 weeks of rain!) here in Delaware and EVERYTHING is soggy and moldy. You put out hay, and in less than an hour it is droopy from the mist/drizzle in the air, and the dampness rising up from the ground. Then, just last week, we had the huge blizzard w/24" of snow.....And the night before she got sick we had a sudden, bitter cold come in at 12 degrees, with sub-zero wind chill.
The vet feels that this combination could easily have triggered dormant Listeriosis to manifest.

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...'o shame on the mothers of mortals, who have not stopped to teach; of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes; the sorrow that has no speech... from -'Voice of the Voicless', Ella Wheeler Wilcox

I'm not a vet but IMO I would
banamine 3cc for 80-90lbs is a lot a once, cut it down to 1cc, it slows the heart rate and puts them in LA LA land at higher dosage rate.
Thymine keep up
LA200 or Biomycin200(no sting carrier) every 24hrs, goats have fast metabolism so it is out after 24hrs

Yes, the Banamine WAS too much for her, the vet already schooled me on that one... As for the LA 200, I'm going to split the differences of opinions and give her the second dose at 36 hours.....

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...'o shame on the mothers of mortals, who have not stopped to teach; of the sorrow that lies in dear, dumb eyes; the sorrow that has no speech... from -'Voice of the Voicless', Ella Wheeler Wilcox

Jill, you are doing great. Keep doing what you are doing, she is responding positively.

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Becky

IMO her rapid recovery after dosing with Thiamine once, indicates polio. Her temp still hasn't been posted so all I can say is you should follow your vets recommendations as it's difficult for anyone on the list to make suggestions.

If she were my goat I would not decrease her dosages, in particular her antibiotic.

My preference would be Procaine Pennicillan as stated prior. Oxytetracyclines also used for treatment. High dosages of antiobiotic are to cross over the blood-brain barrier. There are various kinds of listeriosis and antibiotics recommended vary and by dosage also. If this is truly Listeriosis you are risking the welfare of the doe with a re-lapse if you decrease the dosage.

Goat Medicine by Smith and Sherman explains this well. I'm glad to hear your doe is perking up.
HF