Goat Diarrhea help

fishhead · #21 11/19/09, 07:07 AM

I agree. Take him off the green pasture and only give hay until it stops. If you can't do that at least make sure he fills up on hay before you let him out to browse.

susanne · #22 11/19/09, 07:43 AM

this time of the year there isn't to many fresh green in the pasture.

fecal check at the vet and then choose the right wormer according to the result.
corid is great for prevention but doesn't act fast enough if he already has coccidiosis. di-methox %40m injectable, 1cc per ten pound body weight for 7 days given oral will help.
safeguard might be good for tapes but nothing more.
ivermectin is still effective if you know what parasite you are getting after.
a lot people don't know what parasite their goat has and just take one anthemintic and are surprised if it is not working.

30 pound is awefully small for a five month old boer buckling. he should be at least double the size

southerngurl · #23 11/19/09, 07:46 AM

Yes, the sulfas work faster, but she had the corid on hand and could start it yesterday.

susanne · #24 11/19/09, 08:40 AM

just making sure it is understood that corrid is not the choice for treating coccidiosis. this condition doesn't allow delayed treatment.

DQ · #25 11/19/09, 09:15 AM

jsut want to second the opinion that corid doesn't work for acute coccidioses. from experience with two wethers I put down this year after switching to corid for theraputic/salvage treatment.

FAMANCHA method is about checking the eyelid color for anemia. the more pale the eyelids are the higher the worm load generally.

i agree 30lbs is very small. are you sure he is 30lbs or are you guessing. you would be surprised how much those buggers weigh sometimes and it is absolutely of utmost importance that you get his weight right to dose him correctly with anything.

ivermectin must be used at 3-5 times the dose. safegaurd can be used at 100's of times the dose and still be ineffective (and still have zero side affects if that tells you anything)

southerngurl · #26 11/19/09, 10:03 AM

I have had it work on acute cocci, and it worked well. He wasn't to the point of blood or anything though. Just diarrhea and grinding teeth.

Yes, 30 lbs is small, I didn't catch that. When I first got goats I coudln't guess their weight for nothing. A 50 lb animal is small! I would have guessed them at 25-30 before I had goats for a while.

**mygoat** · #27 11/19/09, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitpatch

They are eating all the green pasture they want, supplemented with hay just for variety. Until this started, they both looked like they were pregnant with watermelons, so I was only feeding enough grain to mix with their minerals. Charlie has lost weight now obviously, but Molly still looks the same as ever - fat and sassy.

The size of the stomach area is NOT fat. Fat accumulates over their ribs, hips, abdominal cavity, chest/neck - mostly subcutaneously. A big stomach size is an excellent thing - it means the rumen is functioning well. Doesn't surprise me that he has 'thinned' and has diarrhea, but your doe that still looks like she has watermelons in her belly doesn't.

To check weight, I feel the ribs, back, and hips. The ribs should not be bare but they should well fleshed and be easy to locate. If they're difficult to locate, they're overweight. Also, in severely overweight goats, the point of chest will feel like blubber instead of a rather bony sternum. The spine should feel flat to the touch, and the hips should not protrude. With dairies it's a bit different, as they're bred for 'dairy character' and angularity, as well as the point that they loose condition through lactation. So, consideration is given to their age, length of lactation, production, etc.

Don't feed grain unless your goats need it. Not only is it an unneeded expense, but it can make your goats overweight. Overweight goats have fertility and kidding problems due to too much fat around the birth canal. Bucks and wethers are equally susceptible to Urinary Calculi from grain. Goats do excellently on free choice hay, free choice pasture (you can do just free choice pasture if it is adequate), free choice loose minerals, baking soda, and fresh water.

First thing, do a fecal and see if they need wormed, or to see if your wormer worked. You can also check for cocci this way to see if that's the problem. Don't worm on a schedule, worm when needed with an effective wormer. Worming on a schedule is what has caused certain wormers to be ineffective in areas.

Penicillin, cocci treatment, and even Kaolin Pectin kills gut flora, so give lots of probiotics - at least 2x per day.

Start him on daily or 2x per day vitamin b shots. Can't hurt.

Do not feed grain, it'll just upset his belly more. Free choice the hay. If it continues much longer, I'd put him on dry lot with free choice hay. It could be a plant he's getting into.

rabbitpatch · #28 11/19/09, 05:13 PM

Just to update you guys on today -
Charlie has had pepto and the correct dose of corid today. I just got off work and I'm heading out to see if he needs another dose of pepto and give him some electrolytes. I picked up a dosing syringe so that I can get them down him better, plus I'm going to add some to his water.

I didn't think I could, but did manage to pen him up so that I can restrict him to hay only. I can't find Sulmet locally....none of the feed stores carry it apparently. I'll either have to go to another town or wait on some to get here from Jeffers.

As for his weight, yes I'm guessing, but my guess is based on the fact that I can pick him up and he doesn't weigh as much as a 50lb bag of feed. And yes, I know a big belly does not mean they're "fat"...."fat and sassy" is a figure of speech that I, and many others where I live, commonly use to mean "quite healthy and happy."

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #29 11/19/09, 06:07 PM

We have an anemia chart (famacha) up on goatkeeping 101 at dairygoatinfo.com

Learning to fecal is key because now with all the meds, sure the eggs have been flushed from the goatlings, you wouldn't expect anything else, but the blood sucking moms are still in place if you used safeguard because it is not for blood sucking adult worms, or even Ivermectin if your goats are resistant to it, and most are. Upping your Ivermectin into high ranges is also meaningless if you are going after resistant worms it simply doesn't work at any dosage, it may kill off and evacuate eggs but if you don't kill the adults your wasteing your money.

If you are going to use a sulfa don't use sulmet it's only 12.5% sulfa, you have to use huge amounts of it and honestly if you don't know how to tube using sulmet on anything bigger is going to mean dosing into a lung. Get the Dimethox Susanne talked about and order from Jeffers, it's simply too expensive to rely on locals for your meds considering they have the same outdated info of most vets.

You'll learn very quickly that most are guessing, and guessing is expensive. Vicki

Briza · #30 11/19/09, 08:30 PM

You said you are mixing grain in their minerals.
You may be causing them to eat more mineral than needed and making them loose that way. Don't entice mineral use. Let them go there for salt and take in small amts.
B~

Backfourty,MI. · #31 11/20/09, 06:19 AM

Ditto on the mineral, I keep mine in a cup in there lean too so it stays dry & they can get it whenever they need it.

How is the little guy doing today? Has the diarrhea stopped?

rabbitpatch · #32 11/20/09, 06:52 PM

He acts like he feels better today. This morning his little belly was rounded again, which I take as a good sign. He's quite bored with being cooped up but he has all the hay he can possibly eat. He's drinking more water too. With this cooler weather, the two of them together might drink a half gallon or so. In the last 24 hours, Charlie has drunk a little more than a gallon all by himself. I did mix some electrolytes in his water too, so I'm sure that's helping him some.

The diarrhea has not stopped yet, but it's slightly better than it was. Yesterday and this morning it was almost pure liquid. Tonight it's more like thin pudding.

Have any of you ever tried canned pumpkin (NOT pumpkin pie filling) with your goats? I know it works wonders for dogs and rabbits with diarrhea. I'm thinking I might offer Charlie some for breakfast tomorrow morning.....

susanne · #33 11/20/09, 09:34 PM

i would not introduce any feed he is not used to right now. remember, he is a ruminant not a single stomach animal like dog rabbit or human.

Backfourty,MI. · #34 11/21/09, 06:22 PM

I agree with susanne too, Only hay as long as he's like this will actually be better for him & his loose minerals in a dish where he can get them if he wants some. No food. Have you taken him to the vet or had a fecal done yet to get the right kind of med's for what's wrong? I sure hope he pull's through for you. Tough little guy to have diarrhea this long & still fighting so that's a good sign.

betsy h. · #35 11/22/09, 07:39 AM

I picked up a bunch of pumpkins from the Mtn. Mall in G'burg and have been throwing them one every day- they fall on them like vampires.......:-)

Some papaya enzyme tablets may be just the thing to set his tummy back to rights just now- wally-world has them. plus they are tasty......

southerngurl · #36 11/22/09, 09:54 AM

Pumpkin is added for fiber. Since his diet is already hay, I don't think it would make much difference. I would stick with grass hay and probiotics. Actually, if he were mine I'd probably be giving some garlic as well for any bacterial stuff.

rabbitpatch · #37 11/22/09, 01:44 PM

Today's update:
He seems to be doing MUCH better. He still has what I would consider loose stool for a goat as it's still not little hard goat pellets, but there is none of the liquid anymore. I've also been giving him some of what I call "liquid energy for goats." I don't know the brand name as I don't have the bottle here with me, but it's basically just molasses and vitamins. He wasn't eating very much Friday afternoon or Saturday, so I put Molly in the stall with him. By himself, he would only eat if I handed it to him, but with Molly for "competition" he chowed down. He's a little weak from all this but he's doing much better and I'm hoping that, with the diarrhea stopped, he'll begin to gain his strength back.

Since he has lost so much weight, should I start feeding him grain again until he gains his weight back? How long should I wait before feeding him grain again? Obviously I don't want to do it too soon and set him back...

Betsy, I think I've seen those papaya pellets...are they with the rabbit stuff?

Backfourty,MI. · #38 11/22/09, 08:00 PM

I would still just give him good quality hay & his loose minerals where he can get them when ever he wants too. A male goat shouldn't have too much grain anyways becuase it may cause Urinary stones. The companion will definately help him feel better too. I would keep doing what your doing until he has normal goat berries.

All our goats LOVE Apple cider vinegar in there water. They will drink that over the plain stuff everyday before anything else.

southerngurl · #39 11/22/09, 08:03 PM

That's great he is doing better! I don't think I would feed the liquid energy. He doesn't need the sugar in his rumen.

I would think you would want to see good goat pellets for a couple weeks before feeding grain. Then start him on it slowly, make sure it has AC in it, like a meat goat pellet.

rabbitpatch · #40 11/22/09, 09:29 PM

Tonight when I checked on him again, his poops were much more round, but still quite large and some sticking together. Isn't it funny how interested we are in poop? LOL
He's terribly weak but still in very good spirits. You could knock him over with a feather, but he gets up on his own if he does stumble. He has decided that collapsing is a good way to protest taking his medicine, but once I'm done he stands up and leans against me, begging to be petted.

How long should I keep him cooped up in the barn? I'll keep the hay available either way. There is some green left in the pasture but it's not the lush green stuff like you see in summer. I was thinking maybe turn them out during the day and put them up at night....or visa-versa...

Any suggestions on how to best clean the dried poop off his tail/legs/etc.? It's too cold to give him a bath. It's caked on so thick in some places, that I don't think brushing would help much.