My had a pymgy doe we milked when we took her doeling off for a bit to ease the transition and make her comfortable, and I honestly couldn't see milking on with such little teats very long - lol! It was awkward, and I felt it was probably more work than the little milk there was at the end could seem worth it, but it also might have just been this little doe.

Also, on another note - we raise all sorts of animals, and I can't say any pay for themselves even the $25,000-$30,000 SE Arabians pay for themselves at this point, maybe someday! I know our goats do not. Our cows will not either, at least, not for ages. We enjoy them, we love them - they help make our life what we always wanted it to be, they add to the lives of our children and our own. Like anything that has "hobby" in front of it - my husband plays the guitar for a hobby (spends a fortune on guitars and eqip.), we ride horses as a hobby (spend a fortune on tack, etc), my husband rides ATVs as a hobby, and non of those make us any income - now I do make some back with our goats and horses, but without looking at it as a serious business, which I do not at this point, I am not expecting an income. . .I think one has to understand that hobbies are just that - for the joy of it and it will cost money just like motorcycles, boats, fishing, etc. . .
on the upside, you can recoup a bit with hobby farms, where you cannot with many reg. hobbies. You can hardly go through life only endeavoring in those things which make you money - my dad did that and he made a fortune, died at 85 - a very, very sad man who worked until he was bedridden at 84 trying to make money at whatever he could.
Now, I am photographer, by hobby, and I do more than break even, but even with that - if I started to look at it as work and a business, I'd tire of it and give it up, and the little money I make with it is used to turn around and help pay for the time I give as a volunteer for a children's and parent's organization (NILMDTS.org) as a photographer - it is simply something I enjoy. Should I not volunteer my services because it is not making a profit? I enjoy it.
And hey, I do use my oldest son as child labor ;) I birthed him, and I want some work back for all that trouble - haa haa!

Back on the other "main" topic, I would get exposed to the different breeds and see which suit you. People develop strong preferences, as you will see here, to one breed or two, and usually are not fond of the other breeds. . .check them all out and see which you think you will prefer.

Also, you can probably locate a buck for stud service. I have a Nubian buck I offer for stud, and I know other people do it or offer straws of semen.

Off topic here: But for all of you goatmilkers, what is the market for your milk? Is it to independant buyers or to a milk cooperative? We had a really cool goat cheese plant getting started up here and it went away as soon as it came in. Lots of folks had sunk a lot of money into some awful nice herds of does (some in the 2-300 head area) only to have no place to send their milk. Prices of goats have dropped here considerably. I bought a registered alpine yearling that is bred with a very good pedigree and a heavy milking mother last week for my son for $125 and there's more where she came from. Folks just don't have a place to send their milk. My son likes goat's milk and doesn't mind milking so why not.......

Freedom that sounds like a great idea will see if anyone would be interested in co owning a buck. And Francis here i have seen raw goats milk for sell on C-list from 4-8 dollars a gallon, I just thought of just using it for myself and family.

Check your PMs. I think I may have a solution for you. :)

Well, most people around here think I am nuts, would Never Dream of milking a goat! BUT, I did drive 3 hours to buy a purebred Saanen doeling for $150.
The man I bought her from had a whole herd of 35 or so, all running in a large pasture, all looked the same. And every one was friendly and came running to meet me! He was raising them as replacement dairy does, wanted to sell the lot for $125 each. I took it on faith that he knew his stuff, since he was a retired goat dairy guy. She is now bred to my Nubian cross buck and I can't wait to milk!
On the other hand, I milked my friend's LaMancha for several weeks and loved loved loved her!

It's a homesteading forum. Having a money pit in your barn that you throw money into, especially when it's a spouse, a hard working spouse who works off the farm to pay the bills? It's simply no way to start or keep a homestead. If you only have pets than disregard what I say, I asked a question she got defensive in her answer.

To tell new folks that it's fine to go find cheap goats, cheap goats who give you cheap kids for sale, it's why people are in and out of the goat world in less than 2 seasons and why so many homesteads fail. Their are divorces over men paying womens goat bills. Goats that are subsidized by an outside income? Sell milk, use the milk for the house, sell the kids and goats for at least what they cost each year, keep records so you have an idea of what that is. Otherwise don't fool yourself that you have anything more than pets and just keep a few you can take care of easily.

And sure it's nobodies business what any of us do with our herds, until we come on the internet and start talking. Or start giving advice. Or asking for help. Vicki

Apparently my easiest way to getting into milk goats...I fell or stepped into it, was wondering what that was on the bottom of my shoe! No seriously looks like I will be getting a Nigerian dwarf buck next weekend and I cant tell you all how surprised I am at how excited I am, and yes a bit apprehensive bucks just stink (can I bathe him?) Am excited he comes from a good milker, very fertile and gentle so hoping he will improve on what I have. Might need to get him a step stool for my Saanen :O
So it all kinda just happened and fell into place, firm believer that things happen for a reason, like my finding homesteadingtoday and the wealth of information, knowledge and support of fellow goat people!

and yet again.. you bring me into your warped world.. Vicki.. leave me alone (and out of your thoughts .... PLEASE..) I didn't ask for your (or anyone's help on this thread) I certainly wasn't giving advice. We were exchanging prices for our area... YES... pets, finally you get it.. MY goats are PETS>> it's a HOBBY.. I live on a HOBBY FARM.. it's MY farm.. not the hubby's. WE (as in BOTH of us, still own a home TOGETHER in OKC).. He bought me the farm in the Ozarks as sort of a second or vacation home. I chose to get goats and stay here full time. Hubby isn't just some poor over worked trucker. He's an owner operator who is leased to Allied Van Lines.. he goes all over the country and NO he isn't sleeping in his truck, living on tuna while I'm sucking him dry with goat bills. LOL.. he has swam with the dolphins off Key West. Been to just every national park there is. Shot the rapids in oregon.. hiked mountians in CA. Watched a night time space shuttle lift off.. ghost hunted in Tombstone. Been to every battle field (both civil & revolutionary) Baseball games/football games.. he is a professional TOURIST.. not some pitiful overworked wimp of a man.. I don't know what your own marriage is like??? BUT, I'm guess we don't have much in common in our lives other then owning nubians???? I'm neither new to this farm or to goats.. 2 years?? in and out?? I've been here 6 already. You've set yourself up as some sort of goat guru with all the answers.. that's fine, but please for goodness sakes.. wait until someone asks you a questions before you start spouting your answers..
go make some money off your goats or soap or milk sales and let me live my life as I choose to..
susie.. still happily married in the ozarks.

Susie I wasn't talking to you, I was addressing those who after your post, addressed me. Yes most are in and out of goats in 2 seasons, not you, but most...and because they aren't given the real facts.

As long as post come to me thanking me for posting the truth I am not going to stop posting or change what I do post. I do think that it is important for those getting into goats to know that someone is just dealing in pets, or giving information that is only about pets. I would assume most getting into goats want goats who put milk on the table and whose kids sell for the rest of their upkeep, or dang a profit!

See you could have just said 10 posts ago that you just have pets when I asked you, then the lead balloon wouldn't have smashed all over wintrrwolfs thread. :)

Wintrrwolf, glad you found your buck, mini's are excellent! Vicki

After starting with hobby goats, and then trying to write a business plan so that it all made 'business sense' for my accountant, increasing the number of goats I milked until my wrists burned so much I couldn't sleep, buying a milking machine, reducing the number of goats again, and just keeping the goats I love..... our goat operation is also a hobby.

This is a homesteading forum, but the overwhelming majority of folks here have day jobs that they can't give up and a few goats for milk for the family and personal enjoyment. There are other forums for professionals.:)

The original poster asked about "getting into" goats. That sounds like casual interest, a yearning, and/or making a portion of a dream come true. Not 'how do I start a dairy to make a profit.'

Most of us on this board aren't trying to make a living with goats, and I dare say that most have no desire to in the long run. It's a project that we may look at and decide whether or not it works for us personally.

That all said, there are as many ways to raise/pay for/feed goats as there are goat people. It's all good.

As a potential new goat owner I have to warn you, please don’t be duped into the mind set that the more you pay the more you’ll get. This is simply not true for new people in most cases. It takes time and effort to become known in your area by those who will pay upward of $400 for one of your kids.

Just last summer I got a call from someone who paid $2,000 for a ‘show doe’ from a ‘reputable breeder’ and stood dead last in a large class when they took her to show. People will tell you anything and it will take time for you to be able judge for yourself.

I bought my first goats from a breeder much like Susie. High quality, tested, does that cost me $150 (in milk) and now LA at 87, 88 and 89. This is how I would advise a new person to start. Talk to people in your area and find a mentor.

My goats have always had to pay for themselves. I keep careful records and sell milk, cheese, soap and lotion in addition to kids. It is a lot of work so start small and grow slowly.

Yea, it's the higher quality you buy the better you can sell your offspring. Knowing what's good quality is hard when you're new, that's why it's good to get advice!

I am so excited for you! Cletus is a sweetie, and I am SO happy he's going to be Your Boy!! I am totally grinning from ear-to-ear!

Thanks Pony for hooking me up. Cletus is exactly the right color I would have gone for too I didn't want anything to bold that might scare my daughter, she can be a ninny at times. I'm cool with the horns too both my girls have em so I will have a horny herd LOL yeah I went there... Have his pen and house all set and ready. So I figured this much if Sugar isnt prego then he will get the job done and I will have my first mini saanen if she is already bred 50/50 chance she will have another buckling which I will wether for a pen mate for Cletus..man my brain is on overdrive making plans

CMHarris is so right about an expensive goat not necessarily being a top show goat. Several years ago, my friend paid $2500 for a Nubian doe at the ADGA spotlight sale. While she is a nice doe, I never would have paid that much for her. She has only earned one milking leg and her milk production is awful compared to other Nubians. I've owned two sons out of her. The first produced nice doe kids with good general appearance, but they lacked a strong medial. The other out of a different buck from the same breeder's lines pruduced does with good rear udders, but no foreudder. Both bucks went to the sale barn. I did get one nice daugher out of her- nice high wide rear udder, but this doe also does not produce like my other does. My best doe is one I bred and only very distantly related to the expensive doe. You do need to start with decent lines to get nice goats, but shelling out big bucks doesn't necessarily guarantee an appraisal of 90, nor a champion animal.

so true kathy. and also some just buy because of the name without looking if that is from the high end of the line that a breeder is following, forgetting that every breeder has cull animals. i would love to see those animals going to the meat marked instead of selling over priced to new people that don't have a clue what to look for.

Our first 2 goats were freshened (milking) when we bought them. Only problem with the second one was that she had never been milked by a human, just her kids...man was that a rodeo.
Ask to observe a milking or 2 at the place you wish to purchase your goats.
Give you a good idea how they behave and how much milk you may get.
Make sure your facilities are ready before you bring them home.
Best goat we got was a 25 dollar Amish scrub goat. Gives better than a gallon a day when fresh and keeps up pretty well.
Second best was a 135 dollar Amish scrub goat. About the same deal.
We have a pair of papered Nubians that petered out after 5 months to the point it wasn't worth putting a milker on them.
If the place keeps records, see how they produce over a lactation.

Hi ,

I may regret getting into this conversation but here goes. We do not have a huge goat market , this is cow country . I sell doelings from 150.00 and up . I have sold does in milk for 250.00

My girls milk at least 3/4 of a gallon as yearlings and up to 2 gallons as aged milkers. I do show some . I have 1 grand champion and most of my placements are between 1-4th place . I am cae/cl free.

I am going on DHIR and LA this year to be able to ask more for my girls. I am hoping to get buyers from other areas. We are also going commerical dairy this year .

So my point is because you get 150.00 for a doeling does not mean its crap . we do not buy hay we produce our own . Even if I did buy it 50lbs square bales could be had out of the field for 1.00 each , round bales about 10.00 each . 1 ton of my custom made pelleted grain is $365.00 . I do not have to charge hugh prices to break even or make a few $$$


Patty

Excellent post Patty.. it really does matter where you live, as to how much costs you have with the goats. We are in the MO. Ozarks. Land is still pretty cheap. Hay (of excellent quality) is EASY & CHEAP to find. Rarely do we suffer from drought (and when we do... it's NOTHING like OK & TX see) We have tons of browse & woods. My does spend every day of the year roaming, nibbling & browsing. When I started out I was going broke. I bought Black Oil Sunflower Seeds, I bought Kelp. I bought Alfalfa pellets. I did this & that.. (whatever was the *party* line on goat feeding online at that time).. then that way of feeding.. well it changed to Oats & Alfalfa pellets.. when right along with that too. I fed a 50lb bag of alfalfa pellets EVERYDAY 365 days a year, at a cost of over $7.00 a bag, do that math:eek:
THEN came the first kidding season of straight oats. I'd never even seen Ketosis or Milk Fever in my girls. It was sometimes a battle to save moms & kids. I was floored, couldn't figure out what was wrong. All I'd changed was switching to the oats and upping the alfalfa pellets??. It was scary. Most of my does have triplets. I just don't think they were able to get enough carbs out of just oats. I switched BACK to the nice, mixed 16% goat ration I had fed before the oats. (a mix of pellet & grain.. that I'm pretty sure, someone somewhere with a degree in Nutrition had a hand in deciding how much or what to put in there ;) )
Next kidding season? not another problem, with anyone. (I did keep pushing the alfalfa pellets.. bag a day for another year or so) FINALLY someone really explained to me how & with what quality of alfalfa went into making those pretty little green pellets. So...knowing that I really can't get good consistent alfalfa here (without shipping it in, & I just don't need a tractor trailer load LOL, but no longer wanting to feed the alf. pellets) I held my breath and just cold turkey stopped feeding them... was I ever surprised. EVERY goat on the place GAINED weight! On exactly the same amount of goat ration, the same time out to browse.. BUT a WHOLE LOT more GRASS HAY (the stuff I get so cheap that I could NEVER put out enough of it to equal how much money I wasted on the little green pellets LOL) Okay, girls looked good, but what was going to happen at kidding? I was afraid that they weren't getting enough calcium.. had a good friend tell just add some extra in powder form to the goat ration .... duh, why didn't I think of that..it's like 4 dollars a bag & didn't take much LOL..(okay I'm not always the shapest knife in the drawer) Kidding came..healthy moms, big fat strong kids.. then I feared a huge drop in milk production. Nope, Edith was her usual 11lbs. Carla, Stella, Charlotte.. all stayed right around 10... the rest between 7 & 8 (huge record breaking amounts ? nope, but close enought to that magic *gallon a day* that most of my buyers seem to be looking for). Every doe continued on like before. They also maintained their body weight while fresh.. that was the other thing I didn't like about just oats.. besides sick pregnant mamas, I had such a time keeping weight on them once they kidded & began to milk. Weirdest part.. My local goat ration is also CHEAPER then the oats, go figure... (I honestly wander if the alfalfa pellets were doing ANYTHING for them? at least in my herd's case, I don't think so. I've never been able to bring myself to figure up how many thousands of dollars I wasted over the 4 years of alf. pellets YIKES)... I do feed a loose mineral that I love. (cargill, right now onxy) Had folks in on friday buying goats. They just couldn't get over how fat/sassy & shiny the does were (esp. the black ones).. but.. they also thought EVERYONE was heavy bred.. nope, just big old rumens on goats who get enough copper. By feeding the 16% goat ration ( $6.50 a bag) lots of grass hay & minerals without all the other frills.. my costs have dropped so low.. that while I may not be MAKING a bunch of money. Just selling kids for $150 to $200 off the number of does I have.. well.. those sells pretty much pay for feed & hay for everyone out there.. a side benefit? my local buyers find it easy to duplicate the feeding/hay that my does have been use to.. at a cost that doesn't drain their families/homesteads budgets either.. how I do things now works out well for my goats & my family & for the families I sell to.. to be honest that's about all I could ask for, isn't it?

bottom line, not only do folks have goats for different reasons, but we all live in such vastly different areas. We all have our own ideas (or we should have LOL) about what works best for our own herds & situations...

susie, mo ozarks

Oh, my gosh. What an eye opening post. My feed bills with all the alfalfa pellets, alfalfa hay, oats, etc., has been horrible, and hubby has only worked (oilfield) for seven days since last January.

I see a feeding transition coming. WOO HOO!:clap:

WOW. What I am seeing on this board is that what you all are paying for grain, bagged feeds, etc ....I am paying (or have paid) twice or almost twice what you pay for the same items here in the valley of northern california. funny thing is we live in a BIG agricultural area, a cow dairy every other parcel, hay fields all over, etc. One would think it would be cheaper. I used to buy 50# alfalfa pellets for one of my horses and it cost me $11. a bag. Whole corn here is $15.25 per 70# bag but you can only get it at one particular feed store within about a half hour to hour drive from here. everywhere else only sells 50# bags of it. the hog feed I buy called meatmaker is in a 50# bag and costs me almost $13. last year I paid $15.50 per regular bale of alfalfa. now its gone down to $9.-10. per bale thank goodness (feed store prices). I also buy corn/oats/barley combo with molasses in it (aka: sweet feed, aka: COB Wet) and its 50# bags are $12.40 up per bag (price changes sometimes weekly or monthly).
I want to get my own land next year but I may have to jump states to be able to afford it, plus with all the strict animal laws here, it'd probably make me happiest to move.

Alfalfa in southern Missouri was under $5 a bale during the summer.

I'm in Texas now, and it's almost $18 a bale.

Yeah I was worrying that I was messing up somewhere feeding just 16% goat pellets and hay, then one day I grabbed the wrong bag and it didnt have pellets it was oat and other grain mix by purina so I mixed it all together.
I have been staying away from alfalfa cause I swear I red somewhere too much alfalfa is bad and then you have to feed kelp to off set the higher something in alfalfa, its like geesh! This I know most pet food companies like science diet ect...actually do long term studies on the nutritional value of their food, would it...could it be possible that these companies that sell the goat specific food do the same? By the way so far 50# bag of Dumar goat pellets is 12.99 at the TSC near me :confused: and I feed a brome/timothy/clover hay, need to get different minerals though Sugar isn't messing with the little block but she will lick it off my fingers hmmm maybe I should just pulverize it cause the TSC near me does not have the loose minerals, getting pretty disappointed with this store. But then again were I live there aren't THAT many goat owners.

I have been staying away from alfalfa cause I swear I red somewhere too much alfalfa is bad and then you have to feed kelp to off set the higher something in alfalfa, its like geesh!
..................

But you also have to be very careful of where you read and who you listen to. Always check out their websites, always check out who the author is of the book....seen their goats? Nearly all goat feeds are lower quality products than horse feeds. Nearly all are byproducts. And once you to find a management you like stick to it, goats thrive on consistency.

I think my website speaks for itself on how well alfalfa pellets, and an all grain (non by product presacked feed) feeding program works here. But I also live in the national forest my goats have access to not only my acreage but 350 acres of pasture if they care to (they don't :) and I feed a local grass hay 24/7. You have to work with what you have locally, but for me TSC is not a place I buy feed from.

Your hay sounds wonderful and do switch to a loose mineral, most feed stores do carry cattle or horse minerals that have more than copper sulfate in them for your copper needs in your state. Vicki

I swear by alfalfa pellets for horses, and they have worked well for the goats, though many of the goats do not really seem to like them, most will eat them. We cannot buy baled alfalfa around here.
Also, cubes are an option, and sometimes a little less expensive and some of the goats like them better than pellets.

Our goats won't eat alfalfa cubes.

sheesh feed snobs..goat snobs....

For the most part I believe homesteaders looking to get themselves a bit of milk and maybe companionship don't need a 450 dollar goat.
A knowledge of how a goat is put together and what traits contribute to longevity are essential though.
I see the same snobbery in cattle circles. Grade vs registered...I've seen crap on both sides.
For the typical homesteader, who cares?
I know I won't pay much over 200 bucks for a milking goat, and I have a hard time with anything over 50 for a kid.
I know how much it costs me to raise an animal.
I won't pay to cover peoples inefficiencies. I'll shop elsewhere.

Not alfalfa cubes, as those are too large.

Alfalfa pellets.

You might want to check out dairygoatforum.com. Their membership includes some very experienced, long term goat breeders. Become a member and read their very good, up to date info on nutrition.

Whoa! The way I read it she's only had one problem free kidding season this way. She could easily be riding on the alfalfa she fed in the past, using up stores. I would want to see 3 years without trouble before I went dumping my legumes. Also, she pastures her does, how much clover do they have? I know here, we have a ton of it in our pasture. If I went without alfalfa might work, but someone else trying it might not. And what's the mineral content of her land her goats run on? Might be better than yours or mine, who knows. Just wanted to throw that out there. :)

I've had no trouble with alfalfa and oats. Of course, we I don't get trips and quads.

Hey Susie, what kind of grass hay are you using?

LOL.. okay, don't want to *assume* that you are talking about my post, but think you maybe.. NO, actually I only had ONE year of trouble, not one year trouble free.... never a problem up until the year of just oats & alfalfa pellets... and the clover (or lack there of.. that year was a oddly dry one for here) may well have effected the does' diet that year as well. I do have A LOT of clover, esp. in years with decent rain. My land hadn't had ANY animals on it (well, except whatever deer walked thru) since the early 60's. BUT.. I do live in the Ozarks, we have some topsoil...but LOTS of rocks. It's very avg. land for around here.... I would probably have alfalfa hay brought in, if I were selling milk to the processors or something. BUT.. for raising kids & house milk use.. I already have an abundance, no need for more.. After the year of just oats.. we were yet again FINE for the next couple kidding seasons actually. I don't think the alfalfa pellets either hurt nor helped my herd. After stopping, again I saw no down side to them not getting the alf. pellets, like I had expected... except for some weight gain (from eating more grass hay?) nothing happened to their condition or to their milk. I've fed good dairy quality alfalfa hay before.. of course their milk production went up...just like I expected it to. I personally didn't get the same results for all the thousands of dollars I paid out each year on bags of pellet :( ..... as I also mentioned I do get LOTS of triplets (more so then I get twins) and sometimes quads. Even with what I feel is a better rounded ration I've gone back to. With the moms who always give me lots of big babies, I hand out a little more of the ration at midmorning & midday.. I call it a *carb snack* not much at a time, but enough to allow them some extra (aside from morning/evening feedtimes) .. Since it's been over 2 years pellet free, I sort of doubt the girls still have *alfalfa stores leftover* ? ... I'll let ya know how it goes..

susie, mo ozarks

just a local blend of orchard/timothy & bermuda. guy takes good care of his hay fields, but nothing super fancy.

susie, mo ozarks

If he is a young one he won't stink right away, and mine really only stink when there is a doe in heat. When all my girls are bred, the smell is greatly reduced. Oh and you do get used to the bucky smell, to the point others will comment on it and you will be a bit surprised since you can't smell it. :)

I love my Nigerians - even my bucks are friendly and would like a whole lot more loves than I'm willing to give them most of the time. :)

One of the reasons I recommended dairygoatforum.com is the extensive discussion of feeding grains vs. prepared dairy feeds.

No everyone who has high producing milk goats feeds whole grains.

But would you pay to acquire the benefits of decades of WORK to breed quality healthy animals that milk for a decade kidding trouble free and anytime coaching when you have questions? There is no way a person that has been in goats for a long time and has high prices is charging you for their inefficiencies. Inefficiencies result in failure when it comes to goats. Between housing and supplements and med care and feeding and fencing and upgrading stock the costs are seldom recooped by wide margins. Should you think goat breeders are wealthy from selling goats you are incorrect-they were wealthy before they started with goats. Those that have long term success are charging you for their expertise and the results of their extensive commitment to better their stock which means long term investment- planning -study and daily care that new people seldom understand.

B~

Oh believe me, I'm not trying to be against what you're saying. But I'm cautious is all. I would love to go without pellets, they are by far my biggest expense. Like I say, I would think about 3 years would help prove things (I was meaning 1 year trouble free without alfalfa, not that you have trouble every year heh) But I bet you are greatly helped by your clover (what kind(s) do y'all have BTW?), or at least a good mineral program. With the clover we have here, I am planning to start going without alfalfa, or less of it spring, summer and fall, but feeding normal alfalfa rations in the winter, when most of my does are heavy bred. I'm very interested in what you are talking about, because if I didn't have to buy alfalfa, I'd sure be on the cheap!

The clover is just your run of mill white variety. I see the goats eating *some* of it, but really they don't browse it like you would think.. the sheep on the other hand, pretty much spend all day long in the clover patches. I do feed (as in top dress at both feedings) with loose minerals (right now onyx) My feed store guy has talked me into trying Sweet pro Fresh Start

http://www.sweetpro.com/freshstartbags.html

I already top dress with the equine variety of it and LOVE how the donkeys look on it.. I'll let you all know if I see any differences in the herd (good or bad) it's $21.00 a bag and should last me a while (we'll have to play with amounts for to decide how much to use each time ) I'm going to try it on heavy bred does, freshly bred does, open doelings & the bucks (I have a pen of does that won't be getting any, just as a control group)
...Even after all this time alfalfa pellet free.. I still find myself smiling everytime I order feed. My bill is well over less then half what it use to be, everytime time I go in there.. ( just under $3000 dollars a year savings with out the green pellets)

susie mo ozarks

We have white, red and yellow. I think they like yellow the best. I planted some red this year too. Yea, they don't touch the white much from what I've seen.