My goat won grand-champion!
 

So my goat won grand champion at the fair, but I was out of town so someone else is getting the ribbon.

Let me explain, I am in the FFA (I'm 16) and I own 5 goats. I started my project early this spring when Abra kidded Luna and Miko, a different girl named Amber bought the mom pregnant for 100$ from my FFA. She then sold Luna to me and said she wanted to keep Miko, but didn't want the mom Abra. So no one owned Abra, then I bought Abra's sister Kadabra pregnant, also from my FFA. Then I asked my teacher if I could officially start my own dairy herd project. He said sure and quote on quote "You'll need both of the freshened does, and since Amber doesn't have the time to take care of Miko, maybe you can buy her too" So he has been saying that I own Abra Kadabra Luna and Kazam, and probably Miko too.

So I have been taking care of Abra, milking her twice a day every day, as well as walking, training to show, grooming, general vet care, kidding her out when she had Luna and Miko (I had to assist), and making sure she has enough feed (I don't pay for the alfalfa until the end of the summer, but I was planning on paying her feed bill), and starting the registration process with the ADGA. I haven't, however, paid for her to anyone becuase no one owns her. Amber told me many times that she didn't want her and all she thought she paid for was Miko, my teacher told me many times that she was mine.

So the fair was this week. I had to go out of time for a once in a lifetime experience (I went to explore glaciers with a special program) and I said before I left that I wanted my friend Edgar to show her BUT ONLY in the placing class because no one deserved to win showmanship with her but me (since I trained, conditioned, and milked her). My teacher decided to have another kid Andrew, show her for god knows why. I hate that kid. He is the only kid I don't like, but only because he is a power-hungry and dishonest.

The reason I wanted Edgar to show her, is because I know that if she won, he would give me the ribbon--no doubts, I trust him a lot. But since Andrew showed her he won't give me the ribbon and my teacher is on HIS side saying that I never officially bought her. So I geuss it doesn't matter that I conditioned, trained, paid for (I bought her BoSe medication, a salt lick, etc), kidded, milked, and walked Abra, because HE showed her so he get's the Grand Champion Dairy Goat ribbon :( :( :(

It's not fair! I haven't ever won anything before, he even won grand champion showman (because I trained her so well, and she walked great), but he gets to keep the ribbon she won also??? I don't have a single ribbon, trophy, or award for the hundreds of hours I have put in my dairy herd, but he get's the ribbon just for one hour he put in that he never should have.

I am ----ed off, and sad, and crying, it's not fair! I want my ribbon! I want my title! I want something for all the work I have done :flame::badmood: :(

Agh, that sucks. I hate that for you, I would be so upset if it happened to me. At least you know that you did all the work, and that it's you that conditioned her to do so well. :grouphug:

Thanks for the hug :kissy:

I'm just upset because my teacher was fine with me 'owning' and taking care of Abra (at least 2 hours of work a day) up until someone else showed her and won. Then she wasn't really my goat.

No problem :)

Is there any way you could officially buy her? Even though there's no one really to buy her from it seems. Maybe you could make some kind of agreement that if you buy her needs (which you've already been doing) that you can own her and put her in your name in the ADGA. I would get it in writing, too. I always prefer for things to be in writing!

I thought I already owned her... I just started taking care of her when no one else did because she didn't belong to anyone. I was even already registering her under my name, with no problems with anyone.

I guess this is just a lesson learned. You may have had a "once in a lifetime experience" but if you chose not to show your goat at the fair, you can't really get mad because someone else got the ribbon. At our fair, you're not even allowed to let anyone else show your animal (unless you have more than one animal in a specific class, but you still have to be in the ring showing something).

I'm more mad that someone else got the ribbon because of my hard work and didn't do anything to get it, it would be a lot better if no one had gotten a ribbon. It's like seeing someone else steal your photo and win a photo contest, you would rather have just never had your photo entered, since someone else got the recognition, then have your photo of won.

I never gave Andrew permission to show MY goat. But my teacher just lied and said I didn't own it and let him show it without my permission. There is no reason why she was even shown in the showmanship round, that's against the rules as it is. In showmanship your not allowed to show someone elses animal, because your winning based on how well your animal works with you. I trained her to work well with people, not andrew, so he shouldn't of even been allowed to enter showmanship, because he was entering my hard work and training, NOT his.

You are the one who did all the work regardless of where that ribbon went. Be proud of your hard work!
And you might never hear it from him but Andrew knows it in his heart. Just try to let it go.
High school is tough with all this unfairness, be it FFA or sports.
My son was passed over many times as a great pitcher because of politics. He knew he had it in him.
These lessons helped him through the military. He had learned to keep his mouth shut most of the time and to do the best he could.
Your ag teacher probably doesnt want to ruffle any feathers. He cant take back what has already been awarded.

You could check with the 4-H/FFA rules for your fair. In our county, the animal you show can be leased from someone (dairy or horse projects only, not market animals) but they have to be 100% in YOUR care for three (or maybe even six, I'm not sure) months before the show. Your immediate family is allowed to care for the animal, but only you or your immediate family. If there are similar rules for your county, his award could be revoked and given to the reserve champion. As it stands, it's not fair for anyone. Not him, not you, and not whomever got reserve and should have gotten grand.

I agree, especially because my friend got reserve and she deserved champion way more then he did.

I second Lada.

you have something - you won grand champion .. no one can take that away from you :)
Life isn't fair and thats a sucky lesson to learn at any age - but I bet there are people upset they didn't get to climb glaciers too ..

I'm sorry it worked out this way - it is too bad but you are a winner don't forget that

You guys still don't really understand.

I asked 2 of my friends to show my 2 freshened does because they just enjoy showing animals and I trusted them. My teacher had another kid show only one of them, and he won, and now my teacher and the kid who showed them, say that the kid who showed them deserve the ribbon.

My teacher went against what I said, and had someone else show my goat, under their name instead of mine. Then when I came back, he started lying and saying that I never owned the goat because I never paid for her, when he never asked me to pay for her. He said she was my goat and let me take care of her and never asked for payment, even when I discussed with him that I was going to be registering them with the ADGA as my goats. This isn't a misunderstanding, he knew that he told me it was my goat, but now he is lying and saying it was no ones goat, and is lying even more by saying Andrew took care of her before the fair.

I agree that the reserve champion in showmanship deserves to get the grand champion, but MY goat still deserved to win champion and I still deserved to get the ribbon for it.

But...your goat didn't deserve to win if YOU weren't the one showing her. I do agree with what you're saying and I agree with the rules for our county where NO ONE except the owner can show an animal, except like I mentioned before if you have more than one animal in a single class.

The thing is...if you were WILLING to let ANYONE else show your goat, and by doing so you weren't breaking the rules, then you kind of have to accept the results, which is that you don't get to keep the ribbon. It sucks, but it's just the way it is. You could have not showed your goat, and she would not have won anything, which was really your only other option.

You could always get a copy of the award trophy and have that to put on your website or show to buyers who might be interested in your stock, if you decide to buy/register/whatever the doe.

I'm not sure what the protocol is...if a person is showing a goat on behalf of a farm or whatever, who normally gets to keep the ribbons, the individual, or the farm?

You worked hard, and someone else took credit for your long hours..... and that is totally and completely unfair. Your FFA teacher is the one to blame here, since he let Andrew show your goat when he had no grounds to do so. As the adult (and group leader!) he should have never allowed that to happen.

So since your teacher is now saying this isn't your goat, who's goat is he saying it is? I would tell Mr. FFA teacher that you have milked/trained this goat, and you would like to know how the goat's owner is going to compensate you for this. Of course, there will be no compensation...but if I were you, I would still sit down with the FFA teacher and let him know that you've spent approx. X number of hours training and milking the goat, which you thought was yours, and now that you know you've really been training/milking someone else's goat its only fair that you receive compensation of some sort for your work.

And in the future, get everything in writing from this FFA teacher!!! If he says the goat is yours, have him put it in writing. He has proven that his word is no good, so from now on before you put in the love and sweat, make him write and sign something first!

IDK for goats... but back when I rode horses, the owner of the horse got to keep all the ribbons the horse won, except for the ribbons won in classes where it was the rider being judged, not the horse. So ribbons from equitation classes (which judge the rider's form and control of the horse) were kept by the rider, and ribbons in all other classes belonged to the owner. And 99.9% of the time, the owners weren't there to watch the show, so we would just leave the ribbons along with a note saying which classes they were from, in the owner's cubbie at the barn.

The person showing the goat has nothing to do with who wins in the Dairy class. The animals are judged and the animals are awarded prizes and titles. So the goat Abra won grand champion, if I had shown her she still would have won it, if Edgar had shown her (the kid I gave permission to show her) she would have won, and when Andrew showed her, she won. But the goat won, therefore whoever raised the goat won, not who showed her.

My goat won grand champion, and I raised my goat, therefore I won.

That's a good idea. I am going to say that I either get compensation from Andrew for putting all of the hours of work into 'his project' or it becomes my project again and I get the ribbon for it.

I think showmanship still plays a very important role in any class - dairy, market, anything. If the goat is not showed well, she won't be showed to her potential, and that depends on the showman. It's why people vie for who will get the better showman to show their animal.

You are right in principle, but the fact that you were willing to allow another person to show your animal without an agreement in writing prior to the show as to who would keep the awards means that you have to accept the outcome. What if Edgar had suddenly had a change of heart and decided he liked the shiny purple ribbon? There still wouldn't be anything you could do about it. I would still recommend you check the rule book, but you need to be careful in doing so because if YOU broke rules by having another person show your animal, then you could be in trouble too.

Something I'm wondering...how did the teacher or Andrew or anyone else have access to your animals in the first place? Who allowed them to take them off your farm? Who was caring for them while they were at the fair?

No, I agreed with Edgar before hand that he was just showing them in Dairy, not showmanship, and that if she won, the ribbon would be going to me. We are friends he was showing her as a favor. And I trust Edgar I would be incredibly surprised if he ever did anything like that, but then I would blame myself for the the judgment call.

As far as having a better showman show her, Edgar is legally blind, so I don't think I had much of an advantage :D and it isn't against the rules to have someone else show them in Dairy, just showmanship.

My goats stay at our like "FFA Farm" it's like an historic farm that half of the kids can keep their project on. But I still visit them twice a day every day, feeding and watering in the morning, and then milking twice. While I was gone my mom did it for me.

the real issue comes down to who owns the goat?
does she live with the teacher? does the teacher own her?
where did she come from?
perhaps the FFA owns her?

I don't know enough about the system or what happened to comment much - but you weren't the one showing the goat and you have no proof of ownership so you are out of luck - sadly :(
I would work to sort out ownership now though if it still matters

I hate politics. I am sorry for your frustration.... but I am wondering what is going to happen to the doe now? Who owns her?

never mind

Well, here's my take on the whole thing...for what that is worth to you.

First, you have no proof that was your goat. It's a learning experience that will last you a lifetime...get it all in writing.

Like it or not you will sound like a poor sportsman if you complain now and try to take the ribbon from someone else by reporting the entire FFA class to someone else. What proof do you have? I understand that you feel slighted, but don't make it personal.

The idea of FFA is to teach you about raising and caring for the animal. It really isn't about the ribbon. If you know you cared for the goat and honestly did all the work why do you care if someone else has a piece of fabric for their 1-2 days worth of working with the same goat? Why isn't it enough that you were able to experience it all through the FFA group farm. Do you know how many kids don't even have that option? There will be lots of times in life where you will do the work and someone else will get the credit. Take pride in the fact that you did a good job instead of raising a fuss over who showed the goat and got a little piece of fabric for it. I know this sounds tough, but trust me the ribbons fade...the pride and experience is forever.

Go hug the beautiful goat you did so well with and take pride in the fruits of your labor...the goat! Then get ownership papers on her and pay for her feed. Congrats on raising such a nice goat!

Grand Champion Ribbons mean national SAE Awards... national Awards can mean cash prizes, scholarships, and nice things to have on applications. AKA a ribbon isn't just a piece of fabric, it could get me an awesome scholarship or into the college of my dreams.

This is where I would have told my children to learn from this and "grow up!" YOU have nothing to prove you own this goat, HE handled the doe in the ring which means he should get the ribbon. Either way the doe has a grand champion breed or doe, whatever you call it. You can still say she was grand champion in show, no one will want to see a silly ribbon.

Remember this isn't a national show, this sounds like a country fair which often goats who show against themselves got best doe in show and grand champion. Not to sound rude, but do you really think a ribbon is doing to make your life? You have more chances to show her in another show. Be the bigger person and let it stay at this, get a note in writting you own the doe and then NEXT time make it clear you handle the doe or she isn't shown. Best of luck.

Patty.

You can't earn scholarships, money, etc on a show you didn't show in. If it meant that much you should have been there. Would you honestly accept credit for a show you weren't even present for? You have stated that you did all the work so why let a friend show the goat if you wanted the recognition? How is letting someone you "like" show the goat different in the rules from someone you "don't like" showing it? Your friend didn't earn the ribbon anymore than you did.

My point is that you are spinning your wheels over something that you have no real ability to change. Instead of dwelling in the negative and unfairness of it, take pride in the positive and learn for the next event.

I understand you are hurt over the whole thing but trashing the FFA teacher and the other student is hardly the sportsmanship expected in FFA. You weren't there for the show. You didn't discuss the plans for someone else to show the goat with your teacher. You hadn't paid for the goat or paid for it's feed. If you push it to a legal battle you are going against the teacher's word and you have no evidence to back up your claims. Lashing out now will only serve to make you look bad. Trust me. I am much older than you and I have been involved in animals events like this for 2/3s of my life. Learn from the experience and then let it go.

There are two sides to this story and we've only heard one. Having said that, I agree with bluemoonluck on principle.

At 16 years old, you wouldn't know to get things in writing, unless you had an adult advising you - but you do now! A hard lesson to learn and one of many in the future. Never, never assume anything! And if you feel someone is greedy, manipulative and dishonest, remember these type people are able to sell someone a bill of goods or link up with others who are of like minds. But you know what?? In the end the 'dirt' comes out in the wash!

When you deligate your responsibilities to someone else, be prepared to not have them done the way you want and accept the consequences. You had a one time opportunity and you chose to take it - as you should have. Things happen for a reason.

It doesn't sound as though there is too much you can do to change the outcome now... Pride yourself for a job well done with the goat! Stand tall and whatever you do, don't stoop to the level of these other people!

So you're going to try to get monetary compensation for a project you have no monetary investment in? :stars:

Next time, pay for the goat, pay for the feed, move the goat off of the "communal property" and onto your own farm where you or your parents are footing the bill and I think you won't have this problem. If the FFA farm was housing the animal, and FFA was paying for its feed, how can you complain when another FFA member keeps the award?

I understand how you feel.. If it did happened. I would talk to the teacher and said you are making me confuse because you told me that the goat is mine and all of sudden you said it is not mine. That dont make sense. But with goat show and ribbon. If I was you just let it go BUT next time just please please write a note or something and make a copy to PROOF that you want your friend do it not that boy andrew.. U know. And also JUST buy the goat and just do it your self not the teacher.. U know. It will be less complicated.. U know..

Again, this is just one side of the story... But as written, this was a VERBAL agreement.

Lada, How many working people, being financially compensated for what they do, pay for the paper, electricity or whatever else they use, while performing their work?

This "TEACHER/TEAM LEADER" or whatever his title is, KNEW this goat was above the rest, KNEW he had someone who was responsible, taking her time and energy and did it well. HE wasn't going to do it.. and in the end, KNEW the goat had a GOOD CHANCE to win.

This so-called TEACHER/TEAM LEADER wanted a "WIN" on his resume and descriminated against Edgar, a legally blind person, knowing full well the person 'might' be a detriment. This is Not right!!! But unfortunately, this is the way it is - too often!

You want to talk about fairness? This TEACHER/TEAM LEADER has been deceptive, manipulative using his position and power.

Bricheze, stand back for a moment and think objectively. If in your heart you knew you did the right thing - take this valuable lesson and learn from it - Don't let it poison your mind or spirit! Not everyone is bad! In time, you will be older and wiser, and, in the position to be an advocate for what you believe, guiding yourself and other young people away from the pitfalls of human nature... greed, without pointing fingers!

Do what??? What's that have to do with anything? The teacher, I'm assuming, is being compensated for being the FFA leader (although...I don't know. I'm a 4-H leader and I'm not compensated for anything but maybe it's different for FFA?)

If this goat project is Bricheze's goat project then she (or her parents) should have paid for the goat, the feed, the hay, the meds, the shelter, the equipment and whatever else goes into the project.

If this goat is an "FFA goat" and is just a learning tool for the FFA members, then when it comes down to it, the leader...the person RESPONSIBLE for making sure the organization is represented well, was the one who was responsible for making sure that the goat was shown to the best of her ability. Naturally, his first choice would have been Bricheze. If however, she CHOOSES to forgo the show, then it is his responsibility to pick the next best person, which is sounds like he did. The club looks good, the goat looks good, and Bricheze SHOULD feel good and be grateful that the goat was shown at all instead of whining about a ribbon.

You can feel sorry for her all you want, but in the end, it's just a consequence of a decision that she made. She decided to skip the show, and this was the result. Next time, if the ribbon's so durned important, don't skip the show. Pretty simple.

I paid for everything but the goat. He never asked for payment because another girl paid for her, but didn't want her. She wasn't owned buy anyone, but since she was already paid for I assumed I didn't have to pay for her.

My point is: She wasn't owned by anyone so I took care of her, fed her, watered her, milked her, exercised her, trained her to show, kidded her, and medicated her. And I paid for it all with my own money.

My teacher didn't have a problem with me taking full responsibility and care for the animal, until after someone else showed her and won, now I don't own her anymore. But guess what, I am still taking care of her. They even moved her to a different farm, but no one is taking care of her there. I had to drive a half an hour last night to milk, feed, and water her. I swear to god if they think for a second they are taking her away from me I'll kill them. She is my goat.

No one was paying for her feed yet, we pay for the feed together at the end of the summer (cheaper) and I was planning on paying for it. Not to mention she was on pasture for like 3 months anyways, and not needing to be fed.

And I can complain because the other member wasn't housing her either. Over that I was also doing all the personal care of the animal, as well as training her, exercising her, etc. So why do they deserve to win an award with an animal they did absolutely no work with, and I don't, when I spent hundreds of hours working with her? And now I don't even know if I am getting her back after all that?

congrats on winning!

That's horrible. I agree, you had a verbal agreement that you owned the goat, and you did all the work. She is definitely your goat. I would not give up. The ribbon may not be as important, but them trying to say she's no longer your goat, after he said she was, is just wrong.

Do you have any way of keeping your goats on your own property?

No I live in the city. We have 2 farm places were allowed to keep FFA animals, and I don't have anywhere else to keep them.

Well, if it helps. CONGRATULATIONS on the hard work you did to get her to the Grand Champion. That is great.
Now I did not read all the posts to may repeats, but who paid for the entry fee? I have kids helping other kids show goats because you can not go in with several goats, so if one of the other goats that someone is showing wins, they give the ribbon and the premiums to the owner. You have to OWN them or have a signed least into the extension office before May 1st to be able to show.
If you know when the shows are try to make plans around them so you are there and this will not happen.

What you've learned ( I hope ) is to obtain documentation that you own any animal in the future and to ASK ahead of time what happens if you don't show and your goat gets a ribbon. Having a full understanding ahead of time would have gone a long way to prevent this from happening.

BTW, if the other girl PAID for the goat, she owns her unless you have documentation that she GAVE her to you. It is not true that "no one owned her" based on what you stated.

If you re-read this sentence from your post, you will see the contradiction:
"He never asked for payment because another girl paid for her, but didn't want her. She wasn't owned buy anyone, but since she was already paid for I assumed I didn't have to pay for her."

Yes, because she bought her pregnant for 100$ and then charged me 50$ for the extra kid and then she left saying to me and the teacher she didn't want the mom and didn't take the mom; and we haven't seen her for 5 months. Even if the other girl still owns her, which at this point, she really doesn't, the kid that showed her still didn't have the right too.