Dog sharing living quarters with goats

Is he confident enough to risk a dead/injured goat over his opinion? (not if, but WHEN) Does he realize that is what is at stake? Has he researched his opinion? I have no problem with submitting to someone that I can respect to use their head. However, since you - his helpmate - has more information than he currently does, why is he not using it? Doesn't sound kosher to me.

This is a tragedy waiting to happen. DON'T leave that dog alone in there. Please. Those animals are helpless against a dog. I've seen the damage a dog can do and it isn't pretty. LGD's are worth their weight in gold - and mine weighs in at around 160lbs! I wouldn't even put new goats in with my lgd - I'd give the goats a few days to settle in - not that Max would hurt them, but they would have enough to deal with with just the move.

Fortunately, the lady we are buying he goats from, also sold us Joey. If DH is still unmoved when we go to pick them up, I will ask the seller if she lets her Aussie's near the goats and see how that conversation goes. DH pointed out that the dogs are loose and must go around the goats, and I agree they may, but housing them together is different. Hopefully DH will take the seller's opinion seriously and that will be the end (I can't imaging her saying, "sure, let the goats in with him!!")

I am the one who wanted goats. He is supportive, as we are trying to be as self-sufficient as possibly, but I have claimed full responsibility on all fronts for the goats. So it's hard for me to just stand by and say "sure, let's just see what happens when we bring them in with the dog..." At the very least they will become scared and/or distrustful of me/us and will take who knows how long to clam down/re-claim trust. Or, they could be injured which would be expensive, or dead, which would be expensive to replace, not to mention the emotional aspect of it. I just can't let that happen. I am just hanging on to what he said about leashing Joey in the fence and not let him loose with them right off. There is NO WAY I will leave the yard if he is loose. I realize the goats will be under enough stress as it is, it will be nearly an hour in the car for them, coming to a new place with new people.

I am just hoping he will change his mind before we get the goats, the goat seller will help him change his mind, or Joey will get them excited without damage and that will be the end. DH already said if the goats are nervous, Joey will leave. I just hope I am worried about nothing. I will definitely keep you posted.

I missed the last post, as I was replying as you were posting. DH researched enough to see that Aussie's are rated 8/10 stars for "guard dog" and "watch dog" capabilities. He's already said he doesn't care what anyone says, that this is what we are going to try. He is a smart man, so it doesn't make sense for him to not look at all the facts. I already admitted I wasn't sure, but that to my gut it didn't sound right, so I researched and everything I found confirmed how I felt. 20+ posts all agreeing with me doesn't hurt, either...I will definitely have to bring up this thread in conversation, but I am going to give it some time first.

You are correct, having dogs where they are around goats is completely different than *confining* the dog with the goats......and you are talking very small confinement area. Even my yard dogs who have *been around* goats since they were born, are never closed in with the goats. They simply are not made that way, do not have the patience that Livestock Guardian Dogs *must* to have for that type of relationship to work.

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Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

Even if the dog can control himself around the adult goats~ you might as well give up on the kids if you put a herding dog in with them 24/7. My mongrel dog has some shepherd in her. She is a GREAT dog~ listens well, obeys great, gaurds the chickens and the goats great...........

She can NOT resist a fast moving goat kid. Can't do it. You can see her try to. You can see she KNOWS she should leave it alone. But then the little one starts to run and her instinct kicks in. She can resist a running chicken, a running adult or mid sized goat........but if a cat sized goat (or a cat!) starts running she starts shaking all over and if I'm not standing DIRECTLY OVER her giving a stop command she's off. She doesn't bite them or maul them.......but she runs them down and "rolls" them~ as in running full force until she catches it and runs OVER it causing it to roll underneath her. Then she stops~ turns around and uses her nose to try to get the cat sized critter back up to run some more so she can "Roll" them again. The cats here KNOW this game and you will often find them walking slowly across the yard, ears flat and snarling, refusing to run with the dog behind them nosing them and yipping trying to get them to run. I make a point of not letting her in with the goat kids because she gets that same look on her and the shaking when she sees them running. She wouldn't be able to resist~ she'd "roll" the kids and have a great time playing with them......until they stopped getting up and running...........with no claws to convince the dog to stop playing the game........might as well say good bye to that kid.

When you go to visit the breeder of your aussie ask for a lesson in stockdog training. Or at the very least some sort of evaluation with her goats. As a breeder she should be experienced with training that breed/bloodline and be able to let you know what you will be dealing with at home. Your (I won't say what he should be called) hubby will see first hand what the dog is capable of. Keep in mind some aussies won't work, and at 6 months old he isn't mature yet, and might not be showing herding behavior.
This sort of stuff reminds me of my X husband. Partly why he's an X.

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Claycreekfarm.info

if the responsibility of the goats is yours then tell him you refuse to take on the 'responsiblity' if he is not going to give you the reins. responsibilty means that YOU get to make the decisions about them. what will be next? will he refuse to allow you to feed them properly because of his willful ignorance? to me this sounds like a nice way of him causing a problem and getting to blame his submissive wife for her 'silly goat idea'. 'gaurd dogs' and "livestock gaurd dogs" are two totally different things. from my experience these types of dogs are quick to get their hackles up and make good 'home gaurd dogs" because they tend to bond to their owners and not just be "mr. happy to be anyones freinds type dogs" but that doesn't make them LGD's!!!!!!! he obviously doesn't know squat about dogs. which is why this poor pup is in a pen to begin with.
the problem with the dogs and the goats is the least of it.

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A mystery is not an explanation..... on the contrary....no sooner is a myth forged than, in order to stand it needs another myth to support it.

Can you get your husband to read this thread?

There is absolutely NO WAY a herding dog of any kind should be in with goats at any time until it is trained, unless it's in there for training and it's on a leash AND supervised. Even after the dog is fully trained, I would use extreme caution in leaving the dog with the goats unsupervised. To do otherwise is a recipe for disaster. You will have either a ruined dog or injured goats, or both.

I have both goats and herding dogs, and have had for a number of years.

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www.glimmercroft.com
The basic message of liberalism is simply: The true measure of a society is how it treats the weak and the needy. A simple Christian message (Matthew 25:40). -Garrison Keillor

Be prepared with anitbiotics when goat(s) get a nipped vulva or lacerated leg.
And no milk for human consumption. The very least of problems.
Stand your ground, sister.
You'd think by now there would be at least one post in favor of this proposal.

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Bob and Nancy Dickey
Laughing Stock Boer Goats
"Seriously Great Bloodlines"
and the meat goes on....
Near Seattle

Earlier today it occurred to me to contact those in the Australian Shepherd circle. I e-mailed people from several working Aussie websites and associations and 6 out of 6 replies thus far have echoed all of your sentiments (no surprise there!).

I am working on a "report" or sorts to print out and give DH in about a week. I'll let you know how that goes.

I think you got the message on the dog. My concern is the space. Is it really 100 sq ft? 10 by 10? That's way too small. You are going to have a lot of problems keeping 2 goats in such a small space including parasites (internal and external), disease and health problems due to lack of exercise. Maybe I missed something; are you at least going to let them have some space to exercise and browse during the day?

Please forgive me if I am intruding. Just concerned that you don't run into other issues.

Brian
Homegrown Acres
HomegrownAcres.com

Actually, I didn't say that right. We have 100ft of fencing, but it will be arranged into a 40x24 area, which is actually 960 sq. ft. Then there is the 8x12 building for them.

A guard dog is not a LIVESTOCK guard dog.

If your DH refuses to listen to reason, quite honestly, I simply wouldn't buy the goats then. Willfully putting these animals at such risk makes my stomach turn.

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Beth ~ Old Church, VA
3 Nigerian Dwarf goats, 4 cats, 3 Pekin ducks and 7 chickens. One very patient husband~

That is what I told him, we can just sell the goats back to the seller (we already paid for them). He said the point isn't to harm the goats and Joey would be tied on a leach on one end, and if they were nervous or milk production went down, he'd come out. I just hate to even put the goats through being nervous, especially after the move.

I have now eight replies from various Australian Shepherd "experts" (workers, trainers, etc.) and will present it to him when the time is right. I will keep everyone posted.

Good luck.


Patty

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Milk Made Soaps & Lotions
Raising Saanen Dairy Goats , Icelandic Sheep , German Shepherds ,Registered Jersey cows , LGD

You know, this isn't fair to the dog, either. Why should he be tied all the time?

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus