Cydectin ?

Alice In TX/MO · #21 07/10/09, 08:49 AM

You use the cattle pour on ORALLY for goats because it doesn't work the other way. It's called extra-label use.

You might want to do some research at this link:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,8934.0.html

Cannon_Farms · #22 07/10/09, 09:00 AM

Ok, im dence but why is it better to give pour on rather than quest? If quest is stronger and cheaper for small timmers?
For the record Im not against the pour on itself, just the price of it with only having 9 goats.

Pony · #23 07/10/09, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

You use the cattle pour on ORALLY for goats because it doesn't work the other way. It's called extra-label use.

You might want to do some research at this link:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,8934.0.html

THanks!

I know that I use meds "off label" for my fibro. I'll go have a look at the site.

KimM · #24 07/10/09, 12:16 PM

There are injectable, oral, and topical forms of "Cydection". The studies I've been reading say that the injectable used as such is the most effective. I've never tried it that way.
I use Cydectin oral sheep drench at high dosages and I know it works because I do fecals.

A friend had a Boer doe that looked like she was on death's door and she'd been using Ivomec and Safeguard to worm her and it obviously wasn't working. She was going to have the doe put down as she looked SO bad but I suggested giving her Cydectin sheep drench. I think we gave her 20cc's but TWO weeks later, she wasn't the same goat, she absolutely bloomed!

I know others that use the pour-on orally and it works well for them and their goats are fine. Personally, *I* just feel more comfortable using the drench.

hoofinitnorth · #25 07/10/09, 03:00 PM

Pony, my point is that if there is an oral formula that is designed to be given orally, there is no reason to use an external pour-on internally off-label as is being prescribed here. Except to save a few dollars, apparently.

LaManchaPaul · #26 07/10/09, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KimM

There are injectable, oral, and topical forms of "Cydection". The studies I've been reading say that the injectable used as such is the most effective. I've never tried it that way.
I use Cydectin oral sheep drench at high dosages and I know it works because I do fecals.

A friend had a Boer doe that looked like she was on death's door and she'd been using Ivomec and Safeguard to worm her and it obviously wasn't working. She was going to have the doe put down as she looked SO bad but I suggested giving her Cydectin sheep drench. I think we gave her 20cc's but TWO weeks later, she wasn't the same goat, she absolutely bloomed!

I know others that use the pour-on orally and it works well for them and their goats are fine. Personally, *I* just feel more comfortable using the drench.

I'm going to start a thread on my visit to the vet this am. I GOT A BOTTLE OF Cydectin sheep drench. The label is for sheep. 1 cc / 11 lb sheep. Did you double it for a goat?

Paul

Cannon_Farms · #27 07/10/09, 03:32 PM

My vet is very set on using the pour on orally, so it would be interesting to see what your vet has to say paul, please share.

LaManchaPaul · #28 07/10/09, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms

My vet is very set on using the pour on orally, so it would be interesting to see what your vet has to say paul, please share.

Well, I didn't ask for the dose, ASSUMING it'd be on the label. Of course it isn't listed for goats and he didn't tell me.

I use a *real* goat vet in Tifton. I thought I'd save that two-hour drive and go to this one 20 min. near. He has owned sheep, but never goats. He's ok, but I sure wish I'd had gone to Dr. Angie.

Cannon_Farms · #29 07/10/09, 03:52 PM

Gee whiz all yall make me feel so lucky i have a great goat vet close by. Paul I will try and remember to ask mine on monday when i take my girl for a checkup if youd like.

hoofinitnorth · #30 07/10/09, 04:19 PM

According to Langston E Kika de la Garza Institute for Goat Research, they found moxidectin aka cydectin is effective at 0.5mg/kg so you'd have to convert it with math to ml/lb. This may be dated, though, and it may not be specific to your area. Suggest fecals before and after.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #31 07/11/09, 01:36 PM

I have said this before

We caused all the Ivermectin resistance from the 90's by using Injectable 1% ivermectin as an injectable, which speeds through the system of the goat, it worked, but it didn't work well enough. I was super lucky...one family of Nubians I had at the time could not be given subq injections without growing abscess, so my vet very off hand stated to use it orally, and we would fecal to see if it worked, and it's why to this day I can use ivermectin orally for HC bloodsucking worms when most people can't.

So the very idea I am going to use the injectable cydectin (which is another class of ivermectins) as an injectable, and cause faster resistance to this drug, or to purchase little tiny tubes of Quest that worm 4 does in my herd, it would cost me a fortune to worm with Quest, it is not cheaper mg/kg it is actually one of the most expensive ways of purchasing meds, in the little tubes for horses.

Even the university vet schools that teach your vets the little bit they even know about goats will tell you to use the cycectin cattle pouron orally. If there was a problem with this carrier given orally would not some of us who have used it for years see something? You can read old posts of mine that said exactly what Steff said (your going to put into the mouth of your goat something that goes through the hide of a cow?) and I did let all my friends do exactly that, letting them kill off the livers of their goats.....their goats were fine, the stuides done on dairy goats at Prarier View University and Texas A&M showed no problems and in fact superior kill, which means less use, which means less resistance to build up by using all wormers orally.

So I will continue with what I know from fecal samples works here, Cydectin pouron given 1cc per 25 pounds, used it twice last year and once so far this year. That is incredible for someone living with no freeze with goats on the same property for 23 years.

I am not saying injecting Moxidectin injectable isn't going to be effective, what I am saying is that I have learned from my old mistakes of injecting 1% injectable Ivermectin already. It worked also, but it also is the reason we have wide spread resistance to it, had we given it orally from the beginning we know we would not have this resistance, and so does Langston and so does Texas A&M. So this new info, although technically correct that it WORKS injected.....is to me verging on nearly malpractice in not warning goat producers of what happened with injecting Ivermectin....resistance. Vicki

KimM · #32 07/11/09, 05:41 PM

Yes, we gave 1cc per 5#. It probably isn't as cost-effective as using the pour-on but I don't have that many goats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaManchaPaul

I'm going to start a thread on my visit to the vet this am. I GOT A BOTTLE OF Cydectin sheep drench. The label is for sheep. 1 cc / 11 lb sheep. Did you double it for a goat?

Paul

edmonds · #33 07/14/09, 11:20 AM

Cydectin cattle pour on is 0.5%, costs $71 for 500 ml, dosed orally at 4 ml per 100 lbs, gives $0.57 per 100 lb goat. Quest (equine oral gel) is 2%, costs $12 for 11.3 ml tube, dosed at 1 ml per 100 lbs, gives $0.88 per 100 lb goat. Therefore, Quest is 1.5 times as expensive as the cattle pour on.

I would choose Quest for a small herd. Its bound to taste better. You can squirt directly from tube into mouth of goat. And goats are dosed at same rate as horses so you can use the dosing gauge printed on the plunger. But it may be hard to set the correct dosage for small goats since the scale is in increments of 50 lbs.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #34 07/14/09, 11:46 AM

With the Quest or Zemectrin Gold, just squirt the amount of paste you need into a syringe, this way you can actually give the 1cc per 100 pounds orally....the markings on the side of these tubes aren't condusive to just giving it out of the tubes. Vicki

Cannon_Farms · #35 07/14/09, 04:10 PM

Plus I have od things in the past by not getting a proper lock on the tube causing it to slip and have gaven the whole tube when it was only suposed to be half or less.

Jillis · #36 07/15/09, 10:08 AM

The method I use for worming my goats is to put the wormer (I also use Cydectin cattle pour on orally for my goats with excellent results) on a piece of bread, roll it up, and put a taste of molasses on the outside for the finicky goats. They take it quite readily and no worries about the dose.
It probably wold be a lot of work for someone with a large herd, but I am down to nine goats and it is very easy for me to worm this way.

I borrowed a buck last fall and unfortunately he infested my girls with goat lice. I never had a problem with that before! I used the pyrethrim dust twice at a week apart and also used it on the bedding where they sleep. I see no sign of lice now but I will keep checking.

Thanks for all the great info. I never knew that cydectin was the same class of wormer as ivermectin. I don't worry about milk withdrawal. I figure with being around animals all the time I might need a dose of wormer myself.

Blessings, Jillis